The CPU decides the game....

[Knight165]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

Met game last night felt a little forced, huh?

Again...
Somebody start saving games at crucial points in the game.
Finish it and if what you think is "comeback code" or a forced finish...post the save game file here and let us play it.
It should come out the same every time for everyone, no?

When things don't go your way in games and you just can't handle it....I say you guys are shoehorning in the thought of comeback code and forced outcomes.
Do you know how I know?
I ASKED THE DEVELOPERS OF THIS GAME THE POINT BLANK QUESTION...
"Are there ANY pre-determined finishes...game or at bats programmed into this game?" "Are at bats determined before they begin?"
Answer- I think Brian laughed before telling me no. He laughed I think because he would have a LOT less work to do if that was the case. Brian spends countless hours looking at real life stats, outcomes,probabilities and just games and game situations to come up with the formulas to produce the possible outcomes of EACH PITCH(not at bat).

Okay....well I've said my piece quite a few times.
If you guys feel the need to talk nonsense.....carry on.
Have fun.

M.K.
Knight165

[liftheavy]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

If you have come across my previous posts in this thread or others, you should be familiar with my stance on this issue. I'll gladly admit that holding a lead in this game can be tricky, and there are some games where it seems like the deck is stacked against me from the start, but overall I feel the game is fair and that the CPU doesn't affect the outcome of the game to an inordinate degree.

But, I just had to come to this thread this morning to vent about my game last night. I had Jake Peavy going for his 8th win in a row (20th of the season), and my team in the middle of a 5 game win streak. Close game all the way, I'm not making good contact often, but when I do it's right at someone. Finally break through in the bottom of the 6th for 2 runs. Jake has kept the Rangers off the board until now, so it's looking like I might eke out the win after all.





What level were you playing at?

Figure I'll let Jake pitch the 7th since he has the shutout going. He gets two quick outs. Takes the next batter to a 2-2 count, and I throw a backdoor slider that is clearly in the zone, and should be strike. Batter takes it, but umpire calls it a ball. Commentators mumble about how it should have been strike three, blah-blah-blah. Then, I let him off the hook with another ball.

Next batter grounds weakly to second, should be out of the inning, but Beckham bobbles the ball, and makes a throw that pulls Konerko off the bag. Sure, could be user error in this case, but certainly came at a convenient time for the CPU. Runners on 1st and 2nd, 2 outs.

In steps Michael Young. Don't know why, but I thought I would trip him up by throwing a slider to open the at bat. Wrong, he was right on it. Hits to just-right of dead center field. But, he got a lot of air under it, and it's gonna be close. Alex Rios manages to get to the wall in time and climbs it...and, what do you know, I make my first homerun saving grab to seal the victory for Peavy. AMAZING!!!!!

But wait, there's more. Although Rios had the ball in his glove, as he comes down, he drops it over the wall for a 3-run homer. And the commentators follow up with, "What the Canseco is going on out there."

Finally tally, Rangers 3 - White Sox 2.

It happens...it sucks...it seems a bit forced..but I can live with it. Stranger things have happened in real life, and for what it's worth, similar things hve happened in real life. If any us were to watch every inning of a 162 game season, we would see situations like this.

However, I can also see where players begin to see patterns like this and feel like the CPU is toying with them, or manipulating outcomes. Because when it comes to video games, many players feel that if they execute the button combinations correctly, then everything should happen perfectly, that we are in complete control of the game, and the these random fluctuations are aberrations, or some code to torment users.

Off the subject...in terms of holding, or more accurately giving up, late inning leads, for me, this game plays more like college baseball than MLB, but I can live with that as well (it adds some drama). For those of you who are college baseball fans, you'll probably understand what I mean.

What level were you playing at? I do not see these issues on vet with modified sliders...only all star and up.

[jemens]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

Met game last night felt a little forced, huh?

Again...
Somebody start saving games at crucial points in the game.
Finish it and if what you think is "comeback code" or a forced finish...post the save game file here and let us play it.
It should come out the same every time for everyone, no?

When things don't go your way in games and you just can't handle it....I say you guys are shoehorning in the thought of comeback code and forced outcomes.
Do you know how I know?
I ASKED THE DEVELOPERS OF THIS GAME THE POINT BLANK QUESTION...
"Are there ANY pre-determined finishes...game or at bats programmed into this game?" "Are at bats determined before they begin?"
Answer- I think Brian laughed before telling me no. He laughed I think because he would have a LOT less work to do if that was the case. Brian spends countless hours looking at real life stats, outcomes,probabilities and just games and game situations to come up with the formulas to produce the possible outcomes of EACH PITCH(not at bat).

Okay....well I've said my piece quite a few times.
If you guys feel the need to talk nonsense.....carry on.
Have fun.

M.K.
Knight165

Agree 100%. It's not the first time you propose to send a save game to a few guys and see the outcome.....but nobody who's complaining ever agreed to :-) .....strange

To change direction a bit , I would like your opinion guys on on what's happening when Forwarding a few innings. From my point of view, I think the simulated game on fast forward are scoring too many runs. I'm not talking about any kind of comeback logic here. Sometimes it's against me and sometimes it's in my favor. When I'm trailing let say 8-1 after 4th, usually I know if I Forward it to 8th, it can be 8-6 or trailing something like 10-7. Again it's an impression I have and that's why I want your opinion on this.

[Knight165]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

Agree 100%. It's not the first time you propose to send a save game to a few guys and see the outcome.....but nobody who's complaining ever agreed to :-) .....strange

To change direction a bit , I would like your opinion guys on on what's happening when Forwarding a few innings. From my point of view, I think the simulated game on fast forward are scoring too many runs. I'm not talking about any kind of comeback logic here. Sometimes it's against me and sometimes it's in my favor. When I'm trailing let say 8-1 after 4th, usually I know if I Forward it to 8th, it can be 8-6 or trailing something like 10-7. Again it's an impression I have and that's why I want your opinion on this.

The sim engine and "play game" engine do have some differences IMO.
But.....a manage only mode game is a sim game(that you see) and one thing I think gets discounted is the games in game logic in actual simmed games(just simming) and when you put your own manager moves into a game(just managing or actually playing it).
My MoM games are very much like played games...and I think it's because the CPU tends to make a more defined "poor" move or "good" move based on the fact that it's a CPU...and is going by cold hard calculations(the "good" moves)....the poor moves are some parts of the programming I still consider a bit behind(LHP vs. LHB...the pinch hitting....etc) while I will interject much different moves when I use one of the teams.
Also...the CPU uses a different lineup in a straight sim than when you choose(I realize this doesn't apply to your fast forwarding ...although it will make moves)....and that accounts for some of the difference.

M.K.
Knight165

[MisterDMU]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

My issue with timing is the relationship between user interface and the ratings. I've read a few times that the PCI is based on things like ratings, the pitch, streaks, etc. But what bothers me are the times when it seems like the PCI is placed randomly in the zone.

I would love to see more importance given to whether you're early or late on the pitch. Specifically, if I'm early and did a good job turning on the pitch, I'd like to see the PCI be inside more often than not. If a hitter is swinging early, they're probably anticipating something on the inside-half. Similarly, if I'm late on the pitch, I'd love to see the PCI be on the outside of the plate more often than not. That doesn't mean it happens every time, and it absolutely doesn't mean that I hit the ball every time. It's just incredibly, incredibly frustrating to be at bat with Jose Bautista and runners on base, get a 3-1 fastball middle-inside, turn on it, get either perfect or just early timing, and see the PCI low and away.

Does anybody know when the PCI locks in for timing? Is it before the pitch is even thrown? Does it account for the better hitters being able to adjust to a pitch while it's in the air, or does it just say "Jimenez pitching, curveball, Mauer at the plate, 3-1 count, bases empty, PCI will be upper-left" before the pitch?

Sorry to be long-winded. It's the one thing that bugs me about an otherwise phenomenal game. I want to throw my controller every time I get a few runners on, work the count (against my instincts), get a decent 2-0 pitch to hit, and see the PCI on the opposite end of the strike zone despite perfect (or close) timing.

[Knight165]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

My issue with timing is the relationship between user interface and the ratings. I've read a few times that the PCI is based on things like ratings, the pitch, streaks, etc. But what bothers me are the times when it seems like the PCI is placed randomly in the zone.

I would love to see more importance given to whether you're early or late on the pitch. Specifically, if I'm early and did a good job turning on the pitch, I'd like to see the PCI be inside more often than not. If a hitter is swinging early, they're probably anticipating something on the inside-half. Similarly, if I'm late on the pitch, I'd love to see the PCI be on the outside of the plate more often than not. That doesn't mean it happens every time, and it absolutely doesn't mean that I hit the ball every time. It's just incredibly, incredibly frustrating to be at bat with Jose Bautista and runners on base, get a 3-1 fastball middle-inside, turn on it, get either perfect or just early timing, and see the PCI low and away.

Does anybody know when the PCI locks in for timing? Is it before the pitch is even thrown? Does it account for the better hitters being able to adjust to a pitch while it's in the air, or does it just say "Jimenez pitching, curveball, Mauer at the plate, 3-1 count, bases empty, PCI will be upper-left" before the pitch?

Sorry to be long-winded. It's the one thing that bugs me about an otherwise phenomenal game. I want to throw my controller every time I get a few runners on, work the count (against my instincts), get a decent 2-0 pitch to hit, and see the PCI on the opposite end of the strike zone despite perfect (or close) timing.

nemesis is your guy for this question.
He's the batting guy at CD and gets into these types of discussions with the devs.
However, unlike myself, he uses his brain and usually stays out of threads with mind numbing things in the title like "CPU comeback code" or "predetermined outcome"

M.K.
Knight165

[thaSLAB]

Met game last night felt a little forced, huh?

Again...
Somebody start saving games at crucial points in the game.
Finish it and if what you think is "comeback code" or a forced finish...post the save game file here and let us play it.
It should come out the same every time for everyone, no?

When things don't go your way in games and you just can't handle it....I say you guys are shoehorning in the thought of comeback code and forced outcomes.
Do you know how I know?
I ASKED THE DEVELOPERS OF THIS GAME THE POINT BLANK QUESTION...
"Are there ANY pre-determined finishes...game or at bats programmed into this game?" "Are at bats determined before they begin?"
Answer- I think Brian laughed before telling me no. He laughed I think because he would have a LOT less work to do if that was the case. Brian spends countless hours looking at real life stats, outcomes,probabilities and just games and game situations to come up with the formulas to produce the possible outcomes of EACH PITCH(not at bat).

Okay....well I've said my piece quite a few times.
If you guys feel the need to talk nonsense.....carry on.
Have fun.

M.K.
Knight165

LOL, probably the shortest throw Turner ever had to make in his life and he airmails it.

I'm gonna say it was definitely forced comeback code all the way... what in the Luis Castillo!? LOL

(Sorry for bringing that up Knight)



Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[Glenn33]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

It's amazing what a good set of sliders can do for your enjoyment of this game.

Any misgivings I had about user input and the "fun factor" of this game I sincerely take back. Consider this a retraction. I am fully on board with what this game is and how it plays [except the Analog Pitching needs to be changed - but that's another post for another day ]

[MisterDMU]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

nemesis is your guy for this question.
He's the batting guy at CD and gets into these types of discussions with the devs.
However, unlike myself, he uses his brain and usually stays out of threads with mind numbing things in the title like "CPU comeback code" or "predetermined outcome"

M.K.
Knight165

He has more self-control than I do, haha. I hate these threads, but this one is more interesting to me.

I don't think there's anything nefarious going on like a comeback code, but the PCI placement seems to be more random than it should be. Sometimes it works out in my favor, like when I'm late on an inside fastball and somehow the PCI is right on top of a ball an inch off the plate and I get a single to the opposite field. So I guess some randomness is necessary to reflect the actual sport, but there seems to be a little too much in timing mode this year.

I'm ok with having the PCI over the ball, nail the timing, and either miss or foul the ball off. That happens all the time in baseball. But I see little or no difference between a just early swing, a perfect one, and a just late. All 3 are equally likely to be covering the ball or be somewhere on the other side of the strike zone. And when I get a breaking ball on the outside half, sit back, and put a good and late swing on it (which is nearly impossible for my anxious self), it kills me when the PCI is on the inside half and I strike out. Most MLB hitters, if they're able to sit back on a breaking ball, are able to identify that it's not coming high and inside. They might miss, sure, but their swing would be on the same half of the plate as the ball.

If I'm the developers, I think I'd program timing mode to affect the distance of the PCI from the ball's final location rather than its location in the zone. If a good hitter on a cold streak (for example, Ichiro) puts a perfect swing on a pitch, it's very rarely 4 inches away from the ball and on the opposite side of the strike zone. That makes sense for a pitch where Ichiro is very late or very early, but I'd like to see the PCI closer to the ball on better-timed swings. Even if the results are the same, it'd save me from buying a new controller after mine ends up in 5 pieces.

I can handle striking out because the PCI is an inch below the ball. That's baseball My blood boils when the PCI is low and outside on a 3-0 pitch rather than near the dead-center changeup that I put a good swing on.

[Knight165]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

He has more self-control than I do, haha. I hate these threads, but this one is more interesting to me.

I don't think there's anything nefarious going on like a comeback code, but the PCI placement seems to be more random than it should be. Sometimes it works out in my favor, like when I'm late on an inside fastball and somehow the PCI is right on top of a ball an inch off the plate and I get a single to the opposite field. So I guess some randomness is necessary to reflect the actual sport, but there seems to be a little too much in timing mode this year.

I'm ok with having the PCI over the ball, nail the timing, and either miss or foul the ball off. That happens all the time in baseball. But I see little or no difference between a just early swing, a perfect one, and a just late. All 3 are equally likely to be covering the ball or be somewhere on the other side of the strike zone. And when I get a breaking ball on the outside half, sit back, and put a good and late swing on it (which is nearly impossible for my anxious self), it kills me when the PCI is on the inside half and I strike out. Most MLB hitters, if they're able to sit back on a breaking ball, are able to identify that it's not coming high and inside. They might miss, sure, but their swing would be on the same half of the plate as the ball.

If I'm the developers, I think I'd program timing mode to affect the distance of the PCI from the ball's final location rather than its location in the zone. If a good hitter on a cold streak (for example, Ichiro) puts a perfect swing on a pitch, it's very rarely 4 inches away from the ball and on the opposite side of the strike zone. That makes sense for a pitch where Ichiro is very late or very early, but I'd like to see the PCI closer to the ball on better-timed swings. Even if the results are the same, it'd save me from buying a new controller after mine ends up in 5 pieces.

I can handle striking out because the PCI is an inch below the ball. That's baseball My blood boils when the PCI is low and outside on a 3-0 pitch rather than near the dead-center changeup that I put a good swing on.

Haha...yeah understandable.
That's why I'm saying nem is your go to guy on this one as he spends a lot of time making suggestions on the pitcher/batter interface with the devs.
I think a lot of guys want a total control type of batting interface available with any and all of the batting schemes(which would be fine knowing that they would leave in the current one which I believe plays off of a batters vis or disc)...and nem would be the one to try and convince them.

M.K.
Knight165

[HustlinOwl]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

It's amazing what a good set of sliders can do for your enjoyment of this game.

Any misgivings I had about user input and the "fun factor" of this game I sincerely take back. Consider this a retraction. I am fully on board with what this game is and how it plays [except the Analog Pitching needs to be changed - but that's another post for another day ]

lol, I knew youd be back

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

Exactly.

The file has to come from a person that truly believes this stuff, with a detailed description as to what they believe is going to happen.

I don't see how any harm could come from it. Either their issue is proven, and SCEA is made aware of this logic, or their CPU pre-determined theories are completely blown out of the water.

I'll help test this. It's a win-win as I see it.

If I were to upload a franchise file where the user team is trailing 4-3 in the 7th with the bases loaded 2-out and 2-2 count ... and the AI is going to throw the ball high center of the strike zone AND place the PCI low and in, what are various gamers going to do differently to avoid the strikeout?

Secondly, what does it prove?

Thirdly, will it change anyone's opinion?

Saving and posting a scenario that will illustrate this would not be difficult if one were dead set on doing it.

What might be MORE interesting is saving the franchise file at this point in the game, and noting if there are any changes in where the pitch and PCI are placed. We might find that the PCI and pitch location are different each time the game is loaded. We might find that the PCI and pitch location are the same every time the game is loaded.

A user could use the latter in order to know exactly where the AI is going to pitch the ball in any situation (if they wanted to invest enough time into it).

Edit: Another interesting aspect might be to bring in a pinch hitter in the loaded game (bases juiced, 2 outs, 2-2 count) and note whether the pitch and PCI location changes.

[coolguy124]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

i just learned for a fact the cpu predetermines the winner sumtimes
ok so runner on 1st 2 outs bottom 8 pinch hitter brad hawpe
sergio romo pitching (me) late in the count for the 1st time in my life i do what the game tells me and give him a backdoor slider he bombs into rf

tejada ties it in 9th off bell then on a 1-2 count JASON BARTLETT gulfs a changeup way out of the zone in the gap and ludwick gets hit in the head when the meter is set perfect low and in

[Pared]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

So you're saying that your catcher can never make a bad call? Pitcher can never make a perfectly called pitch and get beat by the batter? Please.

My issue with timing is the relationship between user interface and the ratings. I've read a few times that the PCI is based on things like ratings, the pitch, streaks, etc. But what bothers me are the times when it seems like the PCI is placed randomly in the zone.

I would love to see more importance given to whether you're early or late on the pitch. Specifically, if I'm early and did a good job turning on the pitch, I'd like to see the PCI be inside more often than not. If a hitter is swinging early, they're probably anticipating something on the inside-half. Similarly, if I'm late on the pitch, I'd love to see the PCI be on the outside of the plate more often than not. That doesn't mean it happens every time, and it absolutely doesn't mean that I hit the ball every time. It's just incredibly, incredibly frustrating to be at bat with Jose Bautista and runners on base, get a 3-1 fastball middle-inside, turn on it, get either perfect or just early timing, and see the PCI low and away.

Does anybody know when the PCI locks in for timing? Is it before the pitch is even thrown? Does it account for the better hitters being able to adjust to a pitch while it's in the air, or does it just say "Jimenez pitching, curveball, Mauer at the plate, 3-1 count, bases empty, PCI will be upper-left" before the pitch?

PCI is auto-calculated for analog hitting. For hitting involving the LS, the second you press the swing button you commit to the location of the swing.

[Joey]

Re: The CPU decides the game....

I'm trying to decide if you're serious or not. Does a one game sample make it a fact? What was your pitcher confidence? What was the confidence of the slider? If you're using meter, are you absolutely sure you hit it perfect?

I know there may be some shortcomings, but some of these arguments are borderline ridiculous.

i just learned for a fact the cpu predetermines the winner sumtimes
ok so runner on 1st 2 outs bottom 8 pinch hitter brad hawpe
sergio romo pitching (me) late in the count for the 1st time in my life i do what the game tells me and give him a backdoor slider he bombs into rf

tejada ties it in 9th off bell then on a 1-2 count JASON BARTLETT gulfs a changeup way out of the zone in the gap and ludwick gets hit in the head when the meter is set perfect low and in