Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

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  • jmik58
    Staff Writer
    • Jan 2008
    • 2401

    #466
    Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

    I'd love to hear more on Outfield play impressions.

    I've been hoping for major improvements in this area. SCEA has improved the CPU AI play in the OF each year by slowing down the fielders, adding new routes to the ball, etc.; but it has never felt very organic. To use your words, they have taken "psychic" routes to liners or fly balls way too often and it really cuts down on base-hit variety (not hit-type, but in the type of batted balls that actually fall in for a hit).

    I'm not hoping for major leaguer's to miss a bunch of fly balls, but instead to take varying routes that help/hurt their ability to make good follow-up throws, allow more hits to land in play (down the lines), etc.

    If you have any examples from the CD or info regarding the improvements to outfield play I'd love to hear it.

    Also: Any info on outfielder alignment? I realize this is something that has to be shifted carefully because of the need to control extra-base hits, however; I've felt as if the OF has played way too deep in each alignment for years.

    Comment

    • nemesis04
      RIP Ty My Buddy
      • Feb 2004
      • 13530

      #467
      Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

      Originally posted by jmik58
      I'd love to hear more on Outfield play impressions.

      I've been hoping for major improvements in this area. SCEA has improved the CPU AI play in the OF each year by slowing down the fielders, adding new routes to the ball, etc.; but it has never felt very organic. To use your words, they have taken "psychic" routes to liners or fly balls way too often and it really cuts down on base-hit variety (not hit-type, but in the type of batted balls that actually fall in for a hit).

      I'm not hoping for major leaguer's to miss a bunch of fly balls, but instead to take varying routes that help/hurt their ability to make good follow-up throws, allow more hits to land in play (down the lines), etc.




      If you have any examples from the CD or info regarding the improvements to outfield play I'd love to hear it.

      Also: Any info on outfielder alignment? I realize this is something that has to be shifted carefully because of the need to control extra-base hits, however; I've felt as if the OF has played way too deep in each alignment for years.
      The biggest differences I saw at the event with outfielders was that it appeared the CPU had some inaccuracy added when handling plays in the outfield. They also did not retreat on plays too early giving you the impression they did not exactly know where the ball would end up. On home runs that we're questionable the CPU would run it down to wall as opposed to just turning around and looking at it even if it was a wall scraper. I can't say the outfield is totally free of CPU psychic ability but it has definitely been improved. Also there is better separation on outfielders who get better or poorer jumps based on their ratings. Plus the outfielders have been slowed down and you can feel the difference between your quicker and slower fielders as well.

      As far as outfielder alignment, it seemed the same to me. Hopefully for 14 they get to finish the defense portion of the equation for push pull hitters. Then we will see that outfield play and alignment will have a dynamic feel to it.
      Last edited by nemesis04; 02-08-2013, 11:47 PM.
      “The saddest part of life is when someone who gave you your best memories becomes a memory”

      Comment

      • vcu9
        Banned
        • Jan 2013
        • 499

        #468
        Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

        My question pertains to the new fast-forward screen wherein you see the game play out from at-bat to at-bat.

        Since I was told by a CD guy that you cannot choose to pinch hit, pinch run, change a pitcher, attempt a steal or a hit-and-run; do you know if the cpu will automatically do stuff like hit and runs, steal attempts, and pick-off throws?

        Thanks.

        Comment

        • jmik58
          Staff Writer
          • Jan 2008
          • 2401

          #469
          Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

          Originally posted by nemesis04
          The biggest differences I saw at the event with outfielders was that it appeared the CPU had some inaccuracy added when handling plays in the outfield. They also did not retreat on plays too early giving you the impression they did not exactly know where the ball would end up. On home runs that we're questionable the CPU would run it down to wall as opposed to just turning around and looking at it even if it was a wall scraper. I can't say the outfield is totally free of CPU psychic ability but it has definitely been improved. Also there is better separation on outfielders who get better or poorer jumps based on their ratings. Plus the outfielders have been slowed down and you can feel the difference between your quicker and slower fielders as well.

          As far as outfielder alignment, it seemed the same to me. Hopefully for 14 they get to finish the defense portion of the equation for push pull hitters. Then we will see that outfield play and alignment will have a dynamic feel to it.
          Thanks Nem, great info. I definitely understand the need in the virtual world to fudge alignments to keep extra-base hits in control (at least that's the explanation I've heard in the past) but I'm excited to hear that you noticed some AI variance and updates. It's really seemed like the fielders have one path to take to the ball and they already know the optimal route to take (at least in '12). I get the feeling that reaction time and speed are the only things that vary between fielders, as opposed to having a large database of paths/routes to the ball.

          I don't know if this is in the game, but it would be nice to see an attribute (possibly under the hood?) for fielders that factors in a player's ability to judge the landing point of fly balls (or fielding point for grounders) and also a rating that determines the efficiency of the route to that point.

          I see fielders as having four aspects in the process of fielding the ball that can be addressed with ratings/attributes.

          A. The jump (reaction time)
          This is already in the game. If "B" and "D" (see below) are incorporated, "Reaction Time" may not even be something we talk about as much any more as it's been a way to nerf fielding issues up to this point.

          B. The aiming point (accuracy of judgment of where ball will land)
          The best analogy of this would be the landing circle preview in Tiger Woods. For a player with A-rated skills in this area, the aiming-point "Circle" or "Cloud" will be smaller meaning less chance for a mistake. The worse the rating in this area, the larger the Circle/Cloud. Player with a poor rating in this area don't necessarily miss a bunch of fly balls, but their aiming point may be "off" more than a better player, causing the less-skilled guy to make routine plays seem more complicated. This would make tougher balls (liners, etc) less likely to be caught. These guys would be more cautious because of their inability to get to the landing point more accurately. They also would end up in poor position for follow up throws more often. Essentially, the less air under a ball and the farther they have to go, the more these guys struggle. For user fielders I could see a visual aid that shows a "circle" or "cloud" for an aiming point if the player wants to use it. For CPU players (or guys that want to turn the visual aid off) this circle/cloud aiming point would be under the hood.

          C. Speed (how fast, once moving, can they get to the "aiming point"?)
          Like "Reaction Time" this is already in the game and also could be tinkered with if "B" and "D" are incorporated.

          D. The Path/Route (How efficient is the route they take to the ball?)
          This is a similar aspect to the judgment of the aiming point and would work very similar and actually ties into "B". Players with better ratings would take the more efficient route to their judged aiming point more frequently, and less-skilled guys would take varying routes to balls (sometimes perfect, sometimes not). The fun point is when you factor in aiming points ("B", see above). A guy who misjudges the aiming/landing point could take an efficient route but still be slightly out of position. Also, a guy could take a poor route to a poor aiming point and really start a circus (see Manny Ramirez).

          Again, maybe all of these things are already in the game; but I just don't get that feel. I get the impression that aiming point and path are nearly the same for all fielders of all skill levels and that reaction time and speed are the only thing that matters in skill for "getting to the ball".
          Last edited by jmik58; 02-09-2013, 08:59 AM.

          Comment

          • Bobhead
            Pro
            • Mar 2011
            • 4926

            #470
            Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

            Originally posted by jmik58
            Thanks Nem, great info. I definitely understand the need in the virtual world to fudge alignments to keep extra-base hits in control (at least that's the explanation I've heard in the past) but I'm excited to hear that you noticed some AI variance and updates. It's really seemed like the fielders have one path to take to the ball and they already know the optimal route to take (at least in '12). I get the feeling that reaction time and speed are the only things that vary between fielders, as opposed to having a large database of paths/routes to the ball.

            I don't know if this is in the game, but it would be nice to see an attribute (possibly under the hood?) for fielders that factors in a player's ability to judge the landing point of fly balls (or fielding point for grounders) and also a rating that determines the efficiency of the route to that point.

            I see fielders as having four aspects in the process of fielding the ball that can be addressed with ratings/attributes.

            A. The jump (reaction time)
            This is already in the game. If "B" and "D" (see below) are incorporated, "Reaction Time" may not even be something we talk about as much any more as it's been a way to nerf fielding issues up to this point.

            B. The aiming point (accuracy of judgment of where ball will land)
            The best analogy of this would be the landing circle preview in Tiger Woods. For a player with A-rated skills in this area, the aiming-point "Circle" or "Cloud" will be smaller meaning less chance for a mistake. The worse the rating in this area, the larger the Circle/Cloud. Player with a poor rating in this area don't necessarily miss a bunch of fly balls, but their aiming point may be "off" more than a better player, causing the less-skilled guy to make routine plays seem more complicated. This would make tougher balls (liners, etc) less likely to be caught. These guys would be more cautious because of their inability to get to the landing point more accurately. They also would end up in poor position for follow up throws more often. Essentially, the less air under a ball and the farther they have to go, the more these guys struggle. For user fielders I could see a visual aid that shows a "circle" or "cloud" for an aiming point if the player wants to use it. For CPU players (or guys that want to turn the visual aid off) this circle/cloud aiming point would be under the hood.

            C. Speed (how fast, once moving, can they get to the "aiming point"?)
            Like "Reaction Time" this is already in the game and also could be tinkered with if "B" and "D" are incorporated.

            D. The Path/Route (How efficient is the route they take to the ball?)
            This is a similar aspect to the judgment of the aiming point and would work very similar and actually ties into "C". Players with better ratings would take the more efficient route to their judged aiming point more frequently, and less-skilled guys would take varying routes to balls (sometimes perfect, sometimes not). The fun point is when you factor in aiming points ("C", see above). A guy who misjudges the aiming/landing point could take an efficient route but still be slightly out of position. Also, a guy could take a poor route to a poor aiming point and really start a circus (see Manny Ramirez).

            Again, maybe all of these things are already in the game; but I just don't get that feel. I get the impression that aiming point and path are nearly the same for all fielders of all skill levels and that reaction time and speed are the only thing that matters in skill for "getting to the ball".
            I love this entire post. I've seen a lot of real-life fielders suffer from inability to choose proper locations and routes... there are even a few good fielders like Curtis Granderson, Shane Victorino who are known for being really talented but not very efficient. Then you have fielders like Carlos Beltran who I don't think has ever taken a bad route to a ball in his entire life, despite the fact that he's neither the fastest nor best outfielder in the game. So it would definitely add some welcome depth to the differences between fielders.

            Comment

            • doctemple
              Rookie
              • Sep 2012
              • 159

              #471
              Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

              Originally posted by vcu9
              My question pertains to the new fast-forward screen wherein you see the game play out from at-bat to at-bat.

              Since I was told by a CD guy that you cannot choose to pinch hit, pinch run, change a pitcher, attempt a steal or a hit-and-run; do you know if the cpu will automatically do stuff like hit and runs, steal attempts, and pick-off throws?

              Thanks.
              I just hope the CPU will not make unwanted substitutions when you fast forward.

              Comment

              • Knight165
                *ll St*r
                • Feb 2003
                • 24964

                #472
                Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

                Originally posted by vcu9
                My question pertains to the new fast-forward screen wherein you see the game play out from at-bat to at-bat.

                Since I was told by a CD guy that you cannot choose to pinch hit, pinch run, change a pitcher, attempt a steal or a hit-and-run; do you know if the cpu will automatically do stuff like hit and runs, steal attempts, and pick-off throws?

                Thanks.
                Yes...the game will still play out under the hood as it does in simming, but with the new fast forward option...you get to SEE it play out in front of you(at varying ...optional speeds) which gives you a chance to pause the action and enter the game as opposed to before where it simply simmed to the next inning/half inning and dumped you in without having any indication of what was happening.
                They wanted to add some visual aspect with some chance of interaction without slowing up the game too much.

                M.K.
                Knight165
                All gave some. Some gave all. 343

                Comment

                • LastActionHero
                  MVP
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 2453

                  #473
                  Originally posted by Knight165
                  Yes...the game will still play out under the hood as it does in simming, but with the new fast forward option...you get to SEE it play out in front of you(at varying ...optional speeds) which gives you a chance to pause the action and enter the game as opposed to before where it simply simmed to the next inning/half inning and dumped you in without having any indication of what was happening.
                  They wanted to add some visual aspect with some chance of interaction without slowing up the game too much.

                  M.K.
                  Knight165
                  No way! I never caught that.
                  That sounds awesome!
                  "When it's all set and done, reality is the best innovation."

                  Comment

                  • nemesis04
                    RIP Ty My Buddy
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 13530

                    #474
                    Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

                    Originally posted by jmik58
                    Thanks Nem, great info. I definitely understand the need in the virtual world to fudge alignments to keep extra-base hits in control (at least that's the explanation I've heard in the past) but I'm excited to hear that you noticed some AI variance and updates. It's really seemed like the fielders have one path to take to the ball and they already know the optimal route to take (at least in '12). I get the feeling that reaction time and speed are the only things that vary between fielders, as opposed to having a large database of paths/routes to the ball.

                    I don't know if this is in the game, but it would be nice to see an attribute (possibly under the hood?) for fielders that factors in a player's ability to judge the landing point of fly balls (or fielding point for grounders) and also a rating that determines the efficiency of the route to that point.

                    I see fielders as having four aspects in the process of fielding the ball that can be addressed with ratings/attributes.

                    A. The jump (reaction time)
                    This is already in the game. If "B" and "D" (see below) are incorporated, "Reaction Time" may not even be something we talk about as much any more as it's been a way to nerf fielding issues up to this point.

                    B. The aiming point (accuracy of judgment of where ball will land)
                    The best analogy of this would be the landing circle preview in Tiger Woods. For a player with A-rated skills in this area, the aiming-point "Circle" or "Cloud" will be smaller meaning less chance for a mistake. The worse the rating in this area, the larger the Circle/Cloud. Player with a poor rating in this area don't necessarily miss a bunch of fly balls, but their aiming point may be "off" more than a better player, causing the less-skilled guy to make routine plays seem more complicated. This would make tougher balls (liners, etc) less likely to be caught. These guys would be more cautious because of their inability to get to the landing point more accurately. They also would end up in poor position for follow up throws more often. Essentially, the less air under a ball and the farther they have to go, the more these guys struggle. For user fielders I could see a visual aid that shows a "circle" or "cloud" for an aiming point if the player wants to use it. For CPU players (or guys that want to turn the visual aid off) this circle/cloud aiming point would be under the hood.

                    C. Speed (how fast, once moving, can they get to the "aiming point"?)
                    Like "Reaction Time" this is already in the game and also could be tinkered with if "B" and "D" are incorporated.

                    D. The Path/Route (How efficient is the route they take to the ball?)
                    This is a similar aspect to the judgment of the aiming point and would work very similar and actually ties into "B". Players with better ratings would take the more efficient route to their judged aiming point more frequently, and less-skilled guys would take varying routes to balls (sometimes perfect, sometimes not). The fun point is when you factor in aiming points ("B", see above). A guy who misjudges the aiming/landing point could take an efficient route but still be slightly out of position. Also, a guy could take a poor route to a poor aiming point and really start a circus (see Manny Ramirez).

                    Again, maybe all of these things are already in the game; but I just don't get that feel. I get the impression that aiming point and path are nearly the same for all fielders of all skill levels and that reaction time and speed are the only thing that matters in skill for "getting to the ball".
                    Originally posted by Bobhead
                    I love this entire post. I've seen a lot of real-life fielders suffer from inability to choose proper locations and routes... there are even a few good fielders like Curtis Granderson, Shane Victorino who are known for being really talented but not very efficient. Then you have fielders like Carlos Beltran who I don't think has ever taken a bad route to a ball in his entire life, despite the fact that he's neither the fastest nor best outfielder in the game. So it would definitely add some welcome depth to the differences between fielders.
                    Nice post jmik58! In talking with the developers they said programming inaccuracy is one of the more challenging elements to implement. But every year we see some progress in this area which adds a little more personality so to speak to outfield play!
                    Last edited by nemesis04; 02-09-2013, 12:00 PM.
                    “The saddest part of life is when someone who gave you your best memories becomes a memory”

                    Comment

                    • seanjeezy
                      The Future
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 3347

                      #475
                      Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

                      I could actually see reaction being the attribute that determines route efficiency, I would love to see something that lines up with Tango Tiger's fan scouting report:

                      Reaction/Instincts - Determines the player's ability to judge ball location, probably something like modifying the size of the landing circle/shadow

                      Acceleration/First few steps - Determines how good of a jump a player gets
                      Velocity/Sprint speed - Self explanatory
                      Hands/Catching - Self explanatory

                      Release/Footwork - Determines the quality of the fielding/throwing animation
                      Throwing strength - Self explanatory
                      Throwing accuracy - Self explanatory
                      Bakin' soda, I got bakin' soda

                      Comment

                      • Lewis160
                        Rookie
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 365

                        #476
                        Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

                        I posted this a while back and got no replies. Ive noticed while pitching the catcher always calls on the same pitch in the same location over and over. Any word if this has been addressed.
                        Yankees!!

                        Comment

                        • nomo17k
                          Permanently Banned
                          • Feb 2011
                          • 5735

                          #477
                          Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

                          Originally posted by Lewis160
                          I posted this a while back and got no replies. Ive noticed while pitching the catcher always calls on the same pitch in the same location over and over. Any word if this has been addressed.
                          This hasn't been the case I have observed (i.e., if you let API call a pitch once and cancel by getting off the plate and then let it call again, it usually asks for another pitch and location). Where it has been limited is that API doesn't call pitches outside the strike zone as often as it probably should.... don't know if this has been improved myself.
                          The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

                          Comment

                          • nomo17k
                            Permanently Banned
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 5735

                            #478
                            Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

                            Originally posted by doctemple
                            I just hope the CPU will not make unwanted substitutions when you fast forward.
                            I think FF is not a mechanism to avoid this... if you need to prevent AI from doing anything, you'd still need to go into the game and manage that portion of the game yourself.

                            That level of interaction is something that needs to be implemented by adding some auto-managing aspect to MoM or by something like generated counts...
                            The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

                            Comment

                            • doctemple
                              Rookie
                              • Sep 2012
                              • 159

                              #479
                              Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

                              Originally posted by Knight165
                              Yes...the game will still play out under the hood as it does in simming, but with the new fast forward option...you get to SEE it play out in front of you(at varying ...optional speeds) which gives you a chance to pause the action and enter the game as opposed to before where it simply simmed to the next inning/half inning and dumped you in without having any indication of what was happening.
                              They wanted to add some visual aspect with some chance of interaction without slowing up the game too much.

                              M.K.
                              Knight165
                              Hey knight! If i am doing the new fast forward option and the CPU does something we do not want (substitute a player, call for a steal, hit and run, et.), can we pause and cancel the CPU's action?

                              Comment

                              • thaSLAB
                                [Player 1]
                                • Feb 2008
                                • 4495

                                #480
                                Originally posted by doctemple
                                Hey knight! If i am doing the new fast forward option and the CPU does something we do not want (substitute a player, call for a steal, hit and run, et.), can we pause and cancel the CPU's action?
                                No you cannot. Actually, the only way you would know is AFTER the play is done. i.e. 'Upton steals 2nd' or 'Raburn grounds out' (knowing he wasn't in your batting order)

                                You can hop in after that at-bat, but you can't undo any subs/previous plays, etc.


                                -- Sent from the Future...
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