first pitch meatballs....bug?

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  • js3512
    Banned
    • May 2012
    • 437

    #361
    Originally posted by nomo17k
    AI only adapts its strategy to how you play within a game. Performance in previous games is totally forgotten....
    Musta been coincidence then

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

    Comment

    • nomo17k
      Permanently Banned
      • Feb 2011
      • 5735

      #362
      Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

      Thing is, I've already done some of those testing, and people are still claiming that they see unrealistically more first-pitch strikes. (and I'm not trying to dismiss their evidence here. I'm just really perplexed as to why we are seeing such different outcomes.)

      I just ran another All-star neutral-slider exhibition game, Verlander vs. Lincecum.... this time Timing hitting (I use Zone mostly lately) with default cam or offset cam (honestly they'd have no impact in this). I even created a new user on my PS3, used beginner profile and edited to play All-star... just to see if setting might get screw up. And then...

      Top 1st: Lincecum started off with a slider low for a ball. (he started the next batter with a slider away for a ball....)
      Bot 1st: Verlander started off with a 4SFB in for a ball... (and he threw first-pitch ball for the next batter)
      ...

      I played another inning but I just really don't see what you guys are saying.

      Sure, sometimes they look very hittable, and pitchers would depend on primary pitch a significant fraction of the time... but if a pitcher is going for a first pitch strike and not trying to nibble too much, and not being punished for it yet in the game, some of them become fat pitches. I just feel it's within the reasonable range...


      and from CPU vs. CPU games, I already noted that I have seen pitchers going down to 45% first-pitch strike % range... it's quite a contrast from what you guys are saying.


      It really looks to me like we are playing different games. That's why I'm trying to think of other sources of the cause of this issue.... because I really don't see what you guys are posting in screenshots. They look nothing like my games.
      The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

      Comment

      • dkrause1971
        All Star
        • Aug 2005
        • 5176

        #363
        Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

        Originally posted by Heroesandvillains
        If you're really on to something here, you should do more. If you're Nomo or me, do WAY more. LOL( I think 5-10 games would be a decent start.)! That way, it can't be debated. It can be discussed. I've read your posts and love your enthusiasm. It's the only way to prove the issue and direct the discussion in the path that we all wish it will take.

        IF there is an issue here, I'd like it fixed too. But it needs to be proven, and the current testing doesn't remove the variables enough.
        I have posted in this thread close to every page with pitch by pitch examples, pictures and whatever else i could think of. I bet i have 30 posts in this thread alone. Its getting to be a waste of time. Explaining the "problem" over and over. Posting the same basic results over and over and then having to explain them over and over. I see it literally every game with the first pitch of the inning standing out compared to the rest of the pitches faced. I wouldn't have wasted the time if i didn't see that. If the first pitch of an inning was 90% and the rest 80%, i wouldn't even be here talking about it. Some people seem to see it, some are not, maybe its a setting. You tell me exactly what you want and i'll do a bit more.
        Last edited by dkrause1971; 03-08-2013, 11:26 PM.
        Gamertag and PSN Name: RomanCaesar

        Comment

        • dkrause1971
          All Star
          • Aug 2005
          • 5176

          #364
          Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

          Originally posted by nomo17k
          Thing is, I've already done some of those testing, and people are still claiming that they see unrealistically more first-pitch strikes. (and I'm not trying to dismiss their evidence here. I'm just really perplexed as to why we are seeing such different outcomes.)

          I just ran another All-star neutral-slider exhibition game, Verlander vs. Lincecum.... this time Timing hitting (I use Zone mostly lately) with default cam or offset cam (honestly they'd have no impact in this). I even created a new user on my PS3, used beginner profile and edited to play All-star... just to see if setting might get screw up. And then...

          Top 1st: Lincecum started off with a slider low for a ball. (he started the next batter with a slider away for a ball....)
          Bot 1st: Verlander started off with a 4SFB in for a ball... (and he threw first-pitch ball for the next batter)
          ...

          I played another inning but I just really don't see what you guys are saying.

          Sure, sometimes they look very hittable, and pitchers would depend on primary pitch a significant fraction of the time... but if a pitcher is going for a first pitch strike and not trying to nibble too much, and not being punished for it yet in the game, some of them become fat pitches. I just feel it's within the reasonable range...


          and from CPU vs. CPU games, I already noted that I have seen pitchers going down to 45% first-pitch strike % range... it's quite a contrast from what you guys are saying.


          It really looks to me like we are playing different games. That's why I'm trying to think of other sources of the cause of this issue.... because I really don't see what you guys are posting in screenshots. They look nothing like my games.
          And that's the rub- I see what i posted in those pictures all the time. I posted pictures myself, all star and legend level. Your not getting that in your games. I have no idea why. I don't see how anything we post can convince you if you cannot get the results yourself. I have to assume its a setting if your not getting the same results. Since i downloaded the game, its harder for me to delete everything (as i would have to redownload 23GB again) and see if the initial part of where it asks your skill level makes a difference.
          Last edited by dkrause1971; 03-08-2013, 11:31 PM.
          Gamertag and PSN Name: RomanCaesar

          Comment

          • Bobhead
            Pro
            • Mar 2011
            • 4926

            #365
            Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

            You know... I really think there might be something to this theory about corrupted settings. And this isn't just me randomly hypothesizing out loud, like I really think there's an issue here, and it's causing both the meatball bug, and the split results.

            I was just playing a game. I thought I was on Hall of Fame difficulty.
            I was thinking to myself, man this pitch speed is incredibly slow (I have the slider on 8).

            I raised it to 9. Still slow.
            So I thought about how higher difficulties come with higher pitch speeds, and raised the difficulty to Legend.

            But then out of curiosity, thinking about this thread, I unpaused, confirmed all the stuff, and went back to gameplay, and then immediately re-paused, and switched the difficulty back to Hall of Fame.

            The Pitch speed is now WAY faster, and my PCI is not the same size it was at the start of this game. It's definitely smaller.

            This isn't the first time I've found the gameplay to not match the supposed difficulty level, either, but I never really thought about it, until now.

            Edit: SO how about this, all those who have encountered the meatball bug... start a game, typical rules. But at some point in the game:

            1. Pause the game.
            2. Switch the difficulty level to Legend.
            3. Unpause the game, and click "yes" on any and all prompts.
            4. Pause the game.
            5. Switch the difficulty level back to All-Star.

            Then see if you get more meatballs? I'm betting you won't.
            Last edited by Bobhead; 03-08-2013, 11:33 PM.

            Comment

            • Heroesandvillains
              MVP
              • May 2009
              • 5974

              #366
              Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

              Originally posted by dkrause1971
              I have posted in this thread close to every page with pitch by pitch examples, pictures and whatever else i could think of. I bet i have 30 posts in this thread alone. Its get to be a waste of time. Explaining the "problem" over and over. Posting the same basic results over and over and then having to explain them over and over. I see it literally every game with the first pitch of the inning standing out compared to the rest of the pitches faced. I wouldn't have wasted the time if i didn't see that. If the first pitch of an inning was 90% and the rest 80%, i wouldn't even be here talking about it. Some people seem to see it, some are not, maybe its a setting. You tell me exactly what you want and i'll do a bit more but i am tired of fighting with people about it.
              I'm only posting in here because you and Psychobulk (and a few others) have posted evidence enough to peak my interest. I am only trying to help turn this thread around with a reasonable testing method, in hopes to either prove or disprove a logic issue.

              What I'd like you (and everyone else for that matter) to do is use the method I posted on the previous page. But it is certainly up to you.

              Like Nomo, I am not seeing this (but do find some of the evidence posted here quite alarming). In my last game, I saw nine first pitches. 3 of them were balls. But that was just one game.

              CPU testing is the only way to isolate this issue into a logic one. If this yelds nothing, it would point to some sort of Human player bug. In each of these instances, I'd assume a different fix from the Devs would be required.

              Again, if it happens in CPU games, it's a pitching logic issue. If it doesn't, and it DOES in Human games, than there is a bug that needs to be isolated and shown to the SCEA team.

              I sense your frustration, but my main motivation in my posts is to HELP you get the sort of discussion you've WANTED to actually begin here. It's your call. If you want to test this, go one page back and get started. You don't have to do anything, but if you want to get to the bottom of this, CPU is the best first place to start.

              Comment

              • dkrause1971
                All Star
                • Aug 2005
                • 5176

                #367
                Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                Originally posted by Heroesandvillains
                I'm only posting in here because you and Psychobulk (and a few others) have posted evidence enough to peak my interest. I am only trying to help turn this thread around with a reasonable testing method, in hopes to either prove or disprove a logic issue.

                What I'd like you (and everyone else for that matter) to do is use the method I posted on the previous page. But it is certainly up to you.

                Like Nomo, I am not seeing this (but do find some of the evidence posted here quite alarming). In my last game, I saw nine first pitches. 3 of them were balls. But that was just one game.

                CPU testing is the only way to isolate this issue into a logic one. If this yelds nothing, it would point to some sort of Human player bug. In each of these instances, I'd assume a different fix from the Devs would be required.

                Again, if it happens in CPU games, it's a pitching logic issue. If it doesn't, and it DOES in Human games, than there is a bug that needs to be isolated and shown to the SCEA team.

                I sense your frustration, but my main motivation in my posts is to HELP you get the sort of discussion you've WANTED to actually begin here. It's your call. If you want to test this, go one page back and get started. You don't have to do anything, but if you want to get to the bottom of this, CPU is the best first place to start.
                OK, i'll follow the notes on the last page. I'll do a set of 5 games before i post next. Pitchers 1 thru 5 of a rotation.
                Gamertag and PSN Name: RomanCaesar

                Comment

                • BlueSkies7776
                  Rookie
                  • Mar 2010
                  • 302

                  #368
                  Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                  Originally posted by Bobhead
                  You know... I really think there might be something to this theory about corrupted settings. And this isn't just me randomly hypothesizing out loud, like I really think there's an issue here, and it's causing both the meatball bug, and the split results.

                  I was just playing a game. I thought I was on Hall of Fame difficulty.
                  I was thinking to myself, man this pitch speed is incredibly slow (I have the slider on 8).

                  I raised it to 9. Still slow.
                  So I thought about how higher difficulties come with higher pitch speeds, and raised the difficulty to Legend.

                  But then out of curiosity, thinking about this thread, I unpaused, confirmed all the stuff, and went back to gameplay, and then immediately re-paused, and switched the difficulty back to Hall of Fame.

                  The Pitch speed is now WAY faster, and my PCI is not the same size it was at the start of this game. It's definitely smaller.

                  This isn't the first time I've found the gameplay to not match the supposed difficulty level, either, but I never really thought about it, until now.

                  Edit: SO how about this, all those who have encountered the meatball bug... start a game, typical rules. But at some point in the game:

                  1. Pause the game.
                  2. Switch the difficulty level to Legend.
                  3. Unpause the game, and click "yes" on any and all prompts.
                  4. Pause the game.
                  5. Switch the difficulty level back to All-Star.

                  Then see if you get more meatballs? I'm betting you won't.
                  So you're saying everyone has really been playing on Rookie or Beginner even though they have the settings set to All Star or higher?

                  Comment

                  • Bobhead
                    Pro
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 4926

                    #369
                    Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                    Originally posted by BlueSkies7776
                    So you're saying everyone has really been playing on Rookie or Beginner even though they have the settings set to All Star or higher?
                    It's only a theory... I have no concrete evidence. But yeah. Thats what I am suggesting.

                    Comment

                    • nomo17k
                      Permanently Banned
                      • Feb 2011
                      • 5735

                      #370
                      Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                      I would also suggest to put PCI on while playing. The size of PCI is often useful to infer the hitting difficulty level (like bcruise's post earlier).
                      The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

                      Comment

                      • BlueSkies7776
                        Rookie
                        • Mar 2010
                        • 302

                        #371
                        Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                        Originally posted by Bobhead
                        It's only a theory... I have no concrete evidence. But yeah. Thats what I am suggesting.
                        Well, it's an interesting theory but as San Diego Studio have noted, they made the hitting easier all around in this years game. And I did find veteran easier this year than it was last year, so I bumped the difficulty up to All Star. I noticed almost immediately that All Star this year feels like Veteran last year. In other words, the difficulty did indeed go up but the meatball problem was still there. The difference in difficulty that I found (from going from Veteran to All Star) is that the sweet spot was smaller and so getting solid contact was harder. Also the pitching was harder, and it is harder to hit the marker on the pitching meter on All Star.

                        So I feel like the difficulty is changing but not the meatball. The meatball issue only effects the first pitch though. After the first pitch I do see the CPU throw a lot of balls. It's just that damn first pitch that is usually always a meatball up in the zone.

                        Comment

                        • dkrause1971
                          All Star
                          • Aug 2005
                          • 5176

                          #372
                          Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                          I am sure this is an easy question but how do you get the #2-5 starters in a CPU vs CPU game? Do you switch after the game starts? It always just has the aces pitch.
                          Gamertag and PSN Name: RomanCaesar

                          Comment

                          • Bobhead
                            Pro
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 4926

                            #373
                            Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                            Originally posted by dkrause1971
                            I am sure this is an easy question but how do you get the #2-5 starters in a CPU vs CPU game? Do you switch after the game starts? It always just has the aces pitch.
                            Yeah that's exactly what you have to do, it seems there's no way to force the lineup screen to appear if you aren't set to control a team.

                            Comment

                            • bcruise
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 23274

                              #374
                              Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                              Originally posted by dkrause1971
                              I am sure this is an easy question but how do you get the #2-5 starters in a CPU vs CPU game? Do you switch after the game starts? It always just has the aces pitch.
                              You can start the game as one team or the other to set starters, and then swap to neutral once you're in the game. I'm pretty sure that won't invalidate anything.

                              Comment

                              • speels
                                Pro
                                • Feb 2004
                                • 781

                                #375
                                Re: first pitch meatballs....bug?

                                So after reading this thread and apparently pissing dkrause off I was finally able to get a game in and here are my results.

                                I had 33 first pitches, 24 of which were strikes. Of those 24 I chased 7 outside the zone. If I leave those, that puts the strike rate at 17 for 33 or 52%. Now I looked on fangraphs to see if I could find the report that says IRL pitchers throw strikes on the first pitch 59% of the time, and I found it. Now in that report, it says nothing about that only being the leadoff batter in every inning, that means the first pitch to each and every batter in a game.

                                So my stats seem to prove that The Show does in fact have the numbers correct. I am not sure why people are only looking at leadoff stats and not first pitch stats.

                                Anyway, I have only done 1 test game and will do more tomorrow, but I am happy with the results that I saw and don't think we need to worry about.

                                Comment

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