MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

[Factzzz]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

No that does not make sense. They are not the same. From the rules, the number of players/coaches/umps on the field, the equipment, the venues and on and on. Processing cloth physics for 10 players jerseys in a basketball game is different than doing it for all the players on the field/dugout/bullpen entire uniforms in a baseball game.

This is more of an opinion thing anyways.

I say you can compare the graphics of sports game to one another, you say you can't do that.

Considering the fact that most people do compare graphics of all games, especially sports game, i'll stick with what I'm saying.

I was also saying "makes sense" sarcastically because last gen everyone was saying that MLB the Show's graphics are better than any other sports games' graphics (which was true IMO), but now that that might not be the case on ps4, people are saying you can't compare graphics of different sports games. Ironic how that works.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

This is more of an opinion thing anyways.

I say you can compare the graphics of sports game to one another, you say you can't do that.

Considering the fact that most people do compare graphics of all games, especially sports game, i'll stick with what I'm saying

I don't think he's telling you not to stick with it, he's just telling you you're wrong.

[Factzzz]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

I don't think telling you not to stick with it, he's just telling you you're wrong.

You can't be wrong with an opinion

[Bobhead]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

To be fair it's more like 24 if you include an NBA game's bench players (both teams). But your point stands - the number of dugout/bullpen players dwarfs an NBA team's bench.

Bench players in the NBA aren't even wearing jerseys, too. You wear "warm up" shirts until you're called to go play. So that makes NBA even easier.

I know absolutely nothing about soccer. I dont even know how many men are on the field. I won't touch or comment on FIFA.

But baseball has by far, more people actually in uniform, than basketball or hockey. Actually, it has more people in uniform than those two sports combined.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

You can't be wrong with an opinion

How is stating having to render more objects in motion than other sports an opinion when it is clearly fact?

[Factzzz]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

How is stating having to render more objects in motion than other sports an opinion when it is clearly fact?

That's not the argument though, the argument is whether you can or cannot compare graphics of different sports video games.

And you can obviously. What he's saying is more of a reason as to why it would be harder to make a baseball game, or why it would look worse, but nonetheless, it doesn't change the fact that graphics are comparable.

[Factzzz]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

Bench players in the NBA aren't even wearing jerseys, too. You wear "warm up" shirts until you're called to go play. So that makes NBA even easier.

I know absolutely nothing about soccer. I dont even know how many men are on the field. I won't touch or comment on FIFA.

But baseball has by far, more people actually in uniform, than basketball or hockey. Actually, it has more people in uniform than those two sports combined.

The players on the bench in 2k actually don't wear warm ups so they are wearing uniform (a glitch that people complain about), but why does the number of people in uniform even matter?

Cloth physics, are cloth physics, they'll pretty much be the same for every player, it's not like they have to create cloth physics for every player. The cloth physics in 2k and Fifa are the same for all players.

[KBLover]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

I was also saying "makes sense" sarcastically because last gen everyone was saying that MLB the Show's graphics are better than any other sports games' graphics (which was true IMO), but now that that might not be the case on ps4, people are saying you can't compare graphics of different sports games. Ironic how that works.

On some level you can, on some level you can not.

There's nothing ironic or "double-sided" about that.

Different sports have different requirements. Better or worse has to be considered in context of the sport.

Is a football game's graphics better than The Show's because the players have more running animations for all the cuts and such? Desmond Jennings isn't trying to juke the second baseman on a steal attempt so he as a "simple" animation vs LeSean McCoy trying to juke the MLB out of his cleats.

Is the The Show having better graphics because the playing field has more nuances? It's not fair to hold a sport with a fixed dimension field as the same as one where there's a lot of diversity in how the arena is shaped. A football game shouldn't "lose points" because there's not as much nuance to capture.

A football game could probably "get away with" worse facial graphics because the players are in helmets most of the time, while in a baseball game, the face is visible always.

Football uniforms have more nuances on them much like baseball stadiums do. If both games depict them well, which is better? Football because the uniforms are more dynamic?

Context is always important in a comparison, whether within the same sport or across sports just like it is across different genres. How do you compare MLB14 to a RPG's graphics, or SC2's graphics? Different requirements, different standards.

[Woodweaver]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

This is more of an opinion thing anyways.

I say you can compare the graphics of sports game to one another, you say you can't do that.

Considering the fact that most people do compare graphics of all games, especially sports game, i'll stick with what I'm saying.

I was also saying "makes sense" sarcastically because last gen everyone was saying that MLB the Show's graphics are better than any other sports games' graphics (which was true IMO), but now that that might not be the case on ps4, people are saying you can't compare graphics of different sports games. Ironic how that works.

The ability to compare is not in question. I am simply pointing out that every game has a unique set of technical challenges especially when attempting to make one modeled after a "real world" game that places a whole other level of constraints. Stating that one title must/should be able to do something visually because another unrelated title was able to is not necessarily true. Saying otherwise, opinion or not, is wrong.

I'm obviously not saying some implementation of cloth physics is impossible in a baseball game, but it will require overcoming a different set of hurdles and constraints.

[Woodweaver]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

That's not the argument though, the argument is whether you can or cannot compare graphics of different sports video games.



And you can obviously. What he's saying is more of a reason as to why it would be harder to make a baseball game, or why it would look worse, but nonetheless, it doesn't change the fact that graphics are comparable.

Well, there is no argument then. You can compare all you want. I was responding to specific comments about the jerseys in a baseball game.

[Factzzz]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

The ability to compare is not in question. I am simply pointing out that every game has a unique set of technical challenges especially when attempting to make one modeled after a "real world" game that places a whole other level of constraints. Stating that one title must/should be able to do something visually because another unrelated title was able to is not necessarily true. Saying otherwise, opinion or not, is wrong.

I'm obviously not saying some implementation of cloth physics is impossible in a baseball game, but it will require overcoming a different set of hurdles and constraints.

I definitely agree with that,

And i'm not saying that because one game has it, the Show should have it, you yourself asked "Can you give me some examples of games on the PS4 or XB1 that display the type of cloth physics you are expecting while processing 50+ active instances?" I actually wasn't sure what you meant by processing 50+ active instances, so i was just giving examples of other games and how their jerseys look.

Personally, I think the cloth physics are definitely good enough (not spectacular, or on the level of some other games, but good enough), the main problem with the jerseys are the sleeves, they look really baggy and stiff.




The jerseys in these two pictures actually look really good IMO, with creases and what not, but then...



The sleeves on the jersey just look atrocious IMO.

I'm not saying the game should have cloth physics, I didn't start bringing that up until someone else did, I'm just saying i thought the jerseys would look better on next gen. I specifically thought there would be better looking sleeves and possibly unbuttoned jerseys.

Now. unbuttoned jerseys would need some pretty serious cloth physics i assume, because the jersey itself would move alot during any animation, but i still thought that would come with the ps4.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

I definitely agree with that,

And i'm not saying that because one game has it, the Show should have it, you yourself asked "Can you give me some examples of games on the PS4 or XB1 that display the type of cloth physics you are expecting while processing 50+ active instances?" I actually wasn't sure what you meant by processing 50+ active instances, so i was just giving examples of other games and how their jerseys look.

Personally, I think the cloth physics are definitely good enough (not spectacular, or on the level of some other games, but good enough), the main problem with the jerseys are the sleeves, they look really baggy and stiff.




The jerseys in these two pictures actually look really good IMO, with creases and what not, but then...



The sleeves on the jersey just look atrocious IMO.

I'm not saying the game should have cloth physics, I didn't start bringing that up until someone else did, I'm just saying i thought the jerseys would look better on next gen. I specifically thought there would be better looking sleeves and possibly unbuttoned jerseys.

Now. unbuttoned jerseys would need some pretty serious cloth physics i assume, because the jersey itself would move alot during any animation, but i still thought that would come with the ps4.

I'm not getting this whole 'the sleeves look atrocious' stuff. They're creased, with appropriate shadowing, and all hanging there will all that gravity and such.

Could you post a comparison shot of the second to last photo and a real life one?

[Factzzz]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

I'm not getting this whole 'the sleeves look atrocious' stuff. They're creased, with appropriate shadowing, and all hanging there will all that gravity and such.

Could you post a comparison shot of the second to last photo and a real life one?

They just look way to long and wide and stiff,

This is an example, but he wears his jersey tight (which is why there should be different fitting options for jerseys)



Here's another one:



And

[cubby blue]

Last year was the first year I played the show. I thought it looked and played awesome. With the PS4, it's only going to get better. I'm really liking what I've seen from the early builds. As some people have already stated, some people's expectations are to high. This game is going to be great!!!

[Russell_SCEA]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Video and Developer Blog - Quick Counts and Player Lock

They just look way to long and wide and stiff,

This is an example, but he wears his jersey tight (which is why there should be different fitting options for jerseys)



Here's another one:



And

Your going to be disappointed, moving on back to the topic of the thread. The blog on Quick Counts and Player Lock.