Fictional Rosters

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fictional Rosters

For team makeup, here's what I was thinking ... ala Bases Loaded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bases_Loaded_(video_game)

At the time Bases Loaded was released, few video games were licensed by major league sports. Therefore, the league depicted in Bases Loaded is a fictitious league of twelve teams. They are:

• Boston - has above-average starting pitching with Bopper, Fine, and Page; a strong bullpen; and a powerful lineup powered by Freida, Norkus, and Angel
• D.C. - has a below-average offense with Fendy being the true star of the offense. One of the best rotations in the game with Finn, David, and Thomas.
• Hawaii- has a strong hitting lineup led by Debro and Kwaz; reasonable starting pitching; and the best bullpen in the game.
• Jersey - boasts the most explosive offense in the game anchored by Paste, Bay, and Ford but has starting and relief pitching that is average at best.
• Kansas - features a starting rotation led by Patson, who has the fastest fastball in the game (102 mph) and good relief pitching, but an average offense, led by Patty and Baker, that has decent power.
• L.A. - features a lineup with decent hitting averages but little power led by Wales and Bacon but has an average starting rotation led by Thomsy.
• Miami- holds the best starting pitching rotation with Henter (best pitcher in the game with a 1.85 ERA), West, and Bonds. Strong bullpen led by Irving, Shard, and Jarvis.
• N.Y. - the weakest offense in the game with the team's only power source in Star. The pitching staff is average and is led by King.
• Omaha- has average starting pitching led by Rennor, fair bullpen, and below-average lineup led by Lyonse.
• Philly - below average offense led by Oko and a below average pitching rotation and bullpen.
• Texas - has a high hitting offense anchored by Marcus but a solid starting pitching staff with Kramer, Unel, and Ott.
• Utah- has one of the best offenses in the game led by Agua and Harlan. Good pitching rotation with Quinta, Lep, and Stava. Good bullpen led by closer Bella.

It also allows for replayability ... with different teams. Players could also initiate "trade rape" at will, without any of the guilt.

I would imagine that the fantasy draft would be popular for people that would be interested in using this roster ... so the experience would be different for each user. I wouldn't necessarily go to all of the trouble of "making teams", only to have those that download it do a fantasy draft.

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Bodizzy:As I mentioned, seems like a logistical case of hemorrhoids, but it's too appealing of an idea to not try. And like TripleThreat hit on, it all has to make sense regarding the type of pitcher a guy is and his repertoire, corner outfielders and their tool set, etc. Everyone has to be on the same page (for the most part) with not using the same batting stance too much. But it seems like it will be most about balance. Raleigh makes good points about this.

I think we're on the same page here. A roster to tends too much toward balance would become bland. A roster that has too many super stars or stars that are disproportionately distributed might become lopsided. So, as you have both suggested, the ideal case is a roster balanced enough to be functional but with enough superstars and interesting characters to be fun to play.

Bodizzy: How many guys have elite speed? How many of those can actually hit every day and field? How many guys can break the yard 40-plus times a season? When I was toying with OOTP a while back there was a guy I had a conversation with in a forum about how he idealized the '80s as the template for league balance with power, speed, average, etc. Something to think about if we really attempt this.

Hopefully using a generated roster to provide ratings will take care of some of these things. I think you're right that our league ought to have these sorts of players and situations, such as getting it right how many teams have speedsters, old power hitters that can't field anymore, teams that have to platoon at certain positions depending on opposing pitcher's handedness, etc.

Bodizzy: The game evolves. Now you have lumberjacks like Dunn and Howard who stroke for power but strike out an inordinate amount of the time. There are speedy, contact guys who just try to work the plate, put the ball in play, and prowl the base paths. Go back three decades and you had to be more balanced to suit up. Do we want a league that represents right now, a more '80s style of play, or a blend?

I'm a fan of small ball. I was just looking at the statistics from my home town Twins '87 series. In some ways, some of the individual players they had (outside of Puckett, Hrbek, and the other big names) they didn't have a murderer's row of offensive talent. I like that sort of thing, so as far as a model decade, I'm fine with taking the eighties.

Bodizzy: What teams do we want to be great? Do we draw teams out of a hat or focus on the large markets that have the dough and go from there? All intriguing questions to be sure.

I like TripleThreat's suggestion of assigning teams an identity: veteran, young, powerhitting, etc. and use that as a guide. As long as we're using MLB teams, we can let history (and as you suggest, large markets) dictate which teams are the powerhouse teams. Yankees, for instance, can be a largely veteran, power hitting team, with a higher proportion of all-stars. It will make it that much more satisfying when my mid-market Twins take them to the cleaners!

[MR.RANDOM]

Re: Fictional Rosters

im so down to help with this project to be..i have plenty free time..just send me a message or something if this idea pans out..ive already began before i saw this thread

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Don't the Twins naturally have to have TWO good pitchers and TWO good hitters? Perhaps even with the same last name? Okay, that may be corssing the border to Cornytown.

The "A's" have more "A potential prospects" than others (Or athletics = fast guys), The "Padres" are the old guys, the "Dodgers" are the quick/agile guys, The "Giants" are self-explanatory, ... okay I'm going overboard.

Really just assigning a "tendency" would be adequate enough without going completely ridiculous.

[Bodizzy]

Re: Fictional Rosters

If I were doing this on my own (and with the 80s being my favorite baseball decade), I would create a roster that mimiced a "Baseball Stars" format ... where there were "stereotypical teams" ... the speed/defense team, the pitching team, the power team, the young team, the veteran team, balanced teams, etc.

Pick your flavor (or fantasy draft if you don't like the setup).

I would advise on "not" making it too realistic, otherwise it would be kind of bland. You kind of need that 90-power, 85-speed guy to give the roster some character. Otherwise, it's all mired in mediocrity (so to speak).

There needs to be a Mickey mantle and a Randy Johnson in there, otherwise there's no one to love or hate.

To go "fictional", but "realistic" could lead to there not being any Pujols or ARod, I mean who would really believe a SS as being the games best power hitter?

This stuff is incredibly easy to do in a spreadsheet. Seriously, with formulas already developed, the ratings can be computed in 5 minutes (copy and paste the raw data) into a spreadsheet and voila, done.

Weighting different categories can assemble teams rather quickly based on predetermined criteria. Again, not much time involved.

Creating the darn guys in the actual game (especially using a controller) and data entering the ratings is the time consuming and motivation killing part.

However, creating the huge jaw'd, stubble encrusted, mammoth slugger that's the extreme TTO (Three True Ooutcomes -- BB/K/HR) version of Adam Dunn can be fun, as would be creating the 6'0 160 pound Latin flamethrower with a great change-up (ala, Pedro) would be fun too. It's all of the *other* guys that wreck it.

If one would create a completely fictional, but very realistic roster, without such extremes might be "too bland". Interested what others think. The point of other games using realistic & fictional rosters is to put maximum value on the GM/Owner's ability to detect value players, and make smart organizational decisions with their money/picks. In a roster for The Show, I would think that maximum enjoyment while "playing" the game would be the focus. The "appearance" of the players is likely an impotant part of this.

I totally agree. I think for the lion's share of the rosters that they should generally mimic the level of talent, types of athletes, and age percentages of the players in MLB right now, but we absolutely need to sprinkle on the Wunderkind hurler, the big-bodied, agile, slugging SS, the slow-footed first baseman that can approach 60 HRs, etc., and there should be enough (but not too many) to make it interesting for all teams.

I think I am perhaps most excited about the appearances of everyone. I'm pretty nifty with the player creator, so it's something I like doing anyway. I just wish we had a few more options with the hair, body types, uniform fittings, and the such.

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Don't the Twins naturally have to have TWO good pitchers and TWO good hitters? Perhaps even with the same last name? Okay, that may be corssing the border to Cornytown.

The "A's" have more "A potential prospects" than others (Or athletics = fast guys), The "Padres" are the old guys, the "Dodgers" are the quick/agile guys, The "Giants" are self-explanatory, ... okay I'm going overboard.

Really just assigning a "tendency" would be adequate enough without going completely ridiculous.

Hahaha. Maybe it's sad, but I find player names based on puns funny. We might not go overboard, but if the Royals have some guys named "Kingsley" and "Prince", I wouldn't object. Maybe some others would?

Not to mention, The Show's audio database provides a good list of nicknames to take advantage of.

Knight: you ought to get in on this conversation before we get anything settled.

Alright, my wife won't be happy if I don't get some things done here. Now that we definitely have some interest, it might be worth mulling over some of the options, then we can take a vote on how to proceed.

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I think I am perhaps most excited about the appearances of everyone. I'm pretty nifty with the player creator, so it's something I like doing anyway. I just wish we had a few more options with the hair, body types, uniform fittings, and the such.[/quote]

Bodizzy, that's fantastic. I've gotten pretty good with the face generator myself. I've made players based on friends of mine and have gotten some fairly accurate results. Depending on who else likes this sort of thing, we can try to split up the teams. We wouldn't have to go over board and do unique faces for every guy. For some of the back-ups, it's enough to scroll quickly through the menus--chin, face, eyes, brow--and jam randomly on the left stick to get some variety!

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fictional Rosters



Even Clew Haywood (Major League) was bason on (and played by) a former major leaguer.

How could there not be a "Kyle Farnsworth" in the game?

Or a spectacle-wearing marksmen? I'm with you, my mind keeps jumping to how some of the guys could look (Pedro Cerrano?), but without becoming just outright goofy ... but even then, I don't think anyone has visions of creating a fictional, perfect sim type, roster ... especially since so few play multiple sesons.

I liken it to "Fight Night" ... if the opponents are too balanced the game loses all enjoyment. However having to fight the "whatever he hits, he destroys" guys is fun, as is the "can't catch that dude" fighter, etc ... but if there's too many of those guys it's not fun either.

The real question is "who is going to enter all of the players?", because I know who is not. *grin* I've already tried that with MLB10. I already want to kill anyone that had anything to do with the music in MLB11, if I had to listen to 200+ hours of that I'd be ready to kill anyone that looked at my copy of the game, from the manufacturer to the distributor to the poor kid at Gamestop that retrieved it from the drawer.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Hahaha. Maybe it's sad, but I find player names based on puns funny. We might not go overboard, but if the Royals have some guys named "Kingsley" and "Prince", I wouldn't object. Maybe some others would?

Not to mention, The Show's audio database provides a good list of nicknames to take advantage of.

Knight: you ought to get in on this conversation before we get anything settled.

Alright, my wife won't be happy if I don't get some things done here. Now that we definitely have some interest, it might be worth mulling over some of the options, then we can take a vote on how to proceed.

Yeah, I can't wait to see hear some of the ideas for players on the 'Indians'.

Oh behave ... y'know I'm just joking.

[Bodizzy]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I'm a fan of small ball. I was just looking at the statistics from my home town Twins '87 series. In some ways, some of the individual players they had (outside of Puckett, Hrbek, and the other big names) they didn't have a murderer's row of offensive talent. I like that sort of thing, so as far as a model decade, I'm fine with taking the eighties.

I like TripleThreat's suggestion of assigning teams an identity: veteran, young, powerhitting, etc. and use that as a guide. As long as we're using MLB teams, we can let history (and as you suggest, large markets) dictate which teams are the powerhouse teams. Yankees, for instance, can be a largely veteran, power hitting team, with a higher proportion of all-stars. It will make it that much more satisfying when my mid-market Twins take them to the cleaners!

I love small ball as well. I like strong pitching, nice glovework, and manufacturing runs. The occasional deep shot is nice.

Also, we should keep in mind that most teams, if they are savvy, anyway, try to assemble their club in a symbiotic manner with their stadium. The Giants (and other west coast teams) match pitching w/ the big stadiums, for example.

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

The real question is "who is going to enter all of the players?", because I know who is not. *grin* I've already tried that with MLB10. I already want to kill anyone that had anything to do with the music in MLB11, if I had to listen to 200+ hours of that I'd be ready to kill anyone that looked at my copy of the game, from the manufacturer to the distributor to the poor kid at Gamestop that retrieved it from the drawer.

Hahaha. As far as the music goes, I took a couple of hours to download the soundtracks from the previous three games and put those, along with some other tracks, into the jukebox. Before they added the jukebox feature I almost went crazy listening to the same menu music, which I hear all the time because I'm always tinkering with rosters.

As far as who is going to enter all of the names, I say we outsource the project to a foreign country, some place without all of the worker's protections we have here (talk about expensive!). But seriously, I'm willing to take a decent portion of the work on, but I want to figure out first how the roster vault stuff works. My hope is that if we have the ratings in spreadsheets per team, or at least some guidelines for player creation, then people can volunteer to take on a team or two (we can post a list of available teams like they do for OSFM). Isn't that how the roster vault works? I can make a generic roster available on the vault in the next couple of days, then people can download it, update a couple of the teams, and upload it again. Or maybe it doesn't work like that. We have to figure out some of the logistics of sharing rosters, then we'll have a better sense for how to divide up the labor. We also need to concretize, or finalize, the plans for how to get ratings or at least guidelines for the people entering players.

I'm going to read over what we have here, and figure out how to blend the best ideas together. If anyone has good ideas about any of the above, be assertive. Otherwise this project will stall out in the planning phase and two years from now we'll be waiting on the results from the "exploratory committee"; we'll be in the land of Dilbert cartoons!

[WB1214]

Re: Fictional Rosters

If you did a spreadsheet including a name, ratings, and the look you wan for the player, I could probably do the Braves..

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fictional Rosters

The spreadsheet stuff is easy. Using BMI (weight/height) and position, etc you can create different body "types" (like MVP and other games have had). Body Type/Class can be a a column in a spreadsheet, but there are also just 3 options when creating a player (buff, lean, fat?). I did not see where it was like previous versions, where you could just make the legs larger, or just the forearms, etc.

What is often done for accessories in other versions of this same activity is to select a rating and then an unrelated rating category ... such as "batting contact and glove color".

You make a formula that assigns a contact of 93-97 as having a "tan glove", etc. Or ...

... you could just go through each team's roster and make every 5th glove tan, then every 3rd black, etc.

This is where it would be great is SCEA just had a "randomizer" option.

You would/could basically follow a very generic process to get different stances, accessories, facial hair, etc ... and then spend some time on the 60 or so guys that you want to have "personalities" ... or be the "main characters".

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Fictional Rosters

There was also a lot of great fictitious names from the Ken Griffey Jr. baseball series as well. That'd be a great resource for fake names. I'm all up for helping with this project as well. I agree that we should only rename the major leagues though.

I think giving each team a "theme" or making the names based on things, people, or events based around the city would be great. I think Ken Griffey jr baseball is the template to aim for when naming teams.

It will make the names fun..and since we would stick with themes it would be easier to come up with names as well. It would give it more focus and not leave everything so open ended and make the teams more unique....even though the players are generic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Griffey,_Jr._Presents_Major_League_Baseball

These are my favorites.

"Imaginary" players in the game are themed with their teammates. Some of the themes include:

* The Atlanta Braves are famous dance DJs, such as Sasha & Digweed. A pitcher for the team is named G. Park, presumably in reference to Atlanta's famed Grant Park. In addition, D. Crime and D. Neon likely refer to Fred "the Crime Dog" McGriff and "Neon" Deion Sanders, respectively.
* The Baltimore Orioles pay tribute to Baltimore native John Waters with B. Divine, P. Flamingo, (Mike Mussina) M. Trasho, and H. Spray, as well as Waters himself standing in for Cal Ripken Jr.
* The Boston Red Sox contain members from the show Cheers. Cliff Claven, Norm Peterson, and Sam Malone are all present. Also included are Boston landmarks (B. Common, M. Harvard) and figures from early American history (J. Adams, J. Hancock, A. Hamilton).
* The California Angels have famous actors on their team (F. Astaire, H. Bogart, J. Wayne).
* The Chicago Cubs has game director Brian Ullrich standing in for Ryne Sandberg. The bullpen has some seemingly generic names, such as P.Drifter, T.Yokel, and R.Steel.
* The Chicago White Sox are former basketball players from St. John's University (M. Sealy, C. Mullin, M. Jackson).
* The Cincinnati Reds are writers (B. Stoker, P. Dick, E. Queen).
* The Cleveland Indians have famous actresses and glamor girls on their team. (A. Margret, A. Hepburn, M. Monroe, G. Garbo).
* The Colorado Rockies contain famous names from horror movies (including G. Romero, B. Lugosi, and T. Savini) .
* The Detroit Tigers are famous Motown singers, (A. Franklin, G. Knight and R. Smokey).
* The Florida Marlins
* The Houston Astros are cartoonists (G. Larson, W. Eisner, S. Lee).
* The Kansas City Royals are based on U.S. presidents (the third batter is D. Ike, whose real-life counterpart is DH Hall of famer George Brett).
* The Los Angeles Dodgers are based on punk rock pioneers from Los Angeles and other areas around California including (Exene Cervenka, John Doe and DJ Bonebrake of X, Poison Ivy and Lux Interior of The Cramps, Jello Biafra and Klaus Flouride of the Dead Kennedys, and Lee Ving of Fear).
* The Milwaukee Brewers have a pitching staff consisting of superhero "secret identities" (P. Parker, K. Kent, B. Wayne), while their position players are fictional secret agents and detectives (J. Rockford, J. Bond).
* The Minnesota Twins are not named for famous sets of twins. The player's names are based on celebrities of various backgrounds, from actor Adam West ([Kent Hrbek]]), guitarist Jimmy Hendrix and pitcher W. Herzog.
* The Montreal Expos are people from the 1980s music scene in Manchester, England, including members of New Order, The Smiths, and Ian Brown of The Stone Roses.
* The New York Mets are based on punk rock pioneers from New York including (Johnny Thunders, Joey Ramone, Tom Verlaine, Jerry Nolan).
* The New York Yankees have the nicknames of famous Yankee greats, such as Bambino and New York boroughs such as S.Island.
* The Oakland Athletics apparently hired more authors with H. Ernest (he replaces Mark McGwire), L. Byron, M. Twain, and L.Tolstoy.
* The Philadelphia Phillies feature a Rocky homage in R. Balboa (Darren Daulton) and A. Creed (Dave Hollins). They also have a Philadelphia landmark (L. Bell) and some of the musicians produced by Phil Spector (D. Love, B. Medley), as well as Spector, himself (John Kruk).
* The Pittsburgh Pirates are named after characters from the soap opera Coronation Street.
* The San Francisco Giants are members of Software Creations, the team that developed the game.
* The San Diego Padres are based on punk rock pioneers from England including (Billy Idol, the members of The Damned, Johnny Rotten, and Sid Vicious).
* The Seattle Mariners have Nintendo of America employees on their team, except Ken Griffey, Jr.
* The St. Louis Cardinals are comedians (H. Moe is actually Bob Tewksbury, O. Hardy is famous shortstop Ozzie Smith).
* The Texas Rangers, appropriately, have a Western theme (their best pitcher, T. Mix, "fills in" for Kevin Brown).
* The Toronto Blue Jays are players from the Wigan Warriors Rugby league team (E. Hanley, M. Offiah, D. Betts).

On the Boston Red Sox, numerous historical figures names appear on the team, including some of our nation's founders. They include: P. Revere, A. Hamilton, B. Franklin, and A. Burr.

Ken Griffey Jr. is the only real life ballplayer in the game.

The entire roster of the Colorado Rockies consists of actors, filmmakers, writers, and anyone else associated with horror films. They include: G. Romero, W. Craven, T. Savini, S. Raimi, V. Price, B. Lugosi, P. Lorre, B. Karloff, L. Chaney, C. Lee, P. Cushing, T. Perkins (Tony (Anthony) Perkins), R. Corman, S. King, H. Alfred (reverse Alfred Hitchcock), and K. Russell.

The roster for the St. Louis Cardinals consists of actors/comedians from film. They include: H. Moe, A. Curly, H. Larry, H. Schemp, R. Foxx, L. Bruce, M. Berle, P. Silvers, C. Chaplin, F. Arbuckle, S. Laurel, O. Hardy, M. Groucho, B. Keaton, M. Zeppo, B. Abbott, L. Costello, M. Harpo, J. Gleason, A. Carney, G. Burns, G. Allen, J. Mason, B. Cosby, and R. Pryor.

The entire roster of the Kansas City Royals consists of former Presidents (up to 1993). They are: B. Clinton, G. Bush, R. Reagan, J. Carter, G. Ford, T. Jeffers (short for Jefferson, considering a T. Jefferson is on the Philadelphia Phillies), F. Rosevelt (shortened Roosevelt), G. Wash (shortened Washington), A. Johnson, C. Coolidge, R. Nixon, H. Hoover, D. Ike (Dwight "Ike" Eisenhower), A. Lincoln, G. Cleveland, U. Grant, J. Kennedy, W. Wilson, J. Polk, J. Buchanan, W. Taft, R. Hayes, J. Adams, L. Johnson, and R. Teddy (Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt).

The roster of the Texas Rangers consists of people associated with The Alamo and other Western history, as well as popular Western stars of the screen. They include: T. Mix, S. Bowie, D. Holliday, D. Crockett, S. Jackson, S. Houston, I. Geronimo, T. Alamo (The Alamo), B. Kidd, D. Boone, W. Earp, B. Hickock, P. Villa, L. Ranger (Lone Ranger), A. Tonto, H. Silver ("Hi Ho Silver") and G. Autry.

On the Cincinnati Reds pitching staff, famed novelists appear. They are: I. Fleming, B. Stoker, and A. Christie.

Numerous actors and musicians appear throughout the roster of the Minnesota Twins. They include: M. Kidder, C. Jennings, P. Cline, B. Holly, E. Sullivan, C. Fisher, D. Siegal, Y. DeCarlo, W. Herzog, J. Coogan, Y. Brynner, A. West, J. Hendrix, G. Lazenby, N. Nolte, and R. Kiel.

From Ken Griffey Jr's Winning Run

Due to the lack of a Major League Baseball Players' Association license, Griffey is the only player in the game to use his actual name. However, one of the fun and largely unknown parts of this game is identifying other MLB players based on the phony and sometimes pun-laden names given to them by developers. For example, the prolific and temperamental Albert Belle is transformed into "Frank Liberty" (Liberty Bell?), Frank Thomas who is nicknamed the Big Hurt is named "Big Magoo", athletically talented and muscular slugger Barry Bonds is named a similarly alliterate "Muscles McFee", Cal Ripken, Jr. is named "Lou Junior", and hard throwing then-Mariners ace Randy Johnson is called "Bolt Lightning" and the twirling Japanese import Hideo Nomo, nicknamed the Tornado, is aptly changed to "Typhoon Kuroi." Some of the other players are:

Edgar Martinez=Moray Ramirez; Tino Martinez=Viper Ramirez; Jay Buhner=Slash Cannon; Kenny Lofton=Jimmy Stealth; Sammy Sosa=Rebel Ruiz; Greg Maddux=Mike Marksman; Curt Schilling=Snake McMillan; Chipper Jones=Cutter Wells; Mark McGwire=Jeff Reynolds; Tony Gwynn=Anvil Groves; Jose Canseco=Bull Gigante; Manny Ramirez=Juan Ortega; Mike Piazza=Tony Tolony; Juan Gonzalez=Rich Tulson

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0311393/trivia

[Bodizzy]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Well, I will go ahead and volunteer to create players and do the faces for the NL West. Perhaps more if need be, or less if we get a bunch of volunteers.