Stats-based sliders for CPU

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Yes, that was the article I read. Was in the Hardball Times. Actually I posted a link to it on these boards last week.

Oh, that was you! Thanks that's the one I read.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

The problem with lowering contact is that it reduces plate vision/discipline and therefore results in even fewer walks. At least that was what I found when I lowered it last year.

Right. But remember, he has consistency at default. Like you did, that will need to be lowered in order to increase BB/9. And lowering contact will kill three birds with one stone.

What's the other alternative? It should help his numbers...only if he lowers consistency too.

Otherwise, Dai, your statement is dead on.

[DaiYoung]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Right. But remember, he has consistency at default. Like you did, that will need to be lowered in order to increase BB/9. And lowering contact will kill three birds with one stone.

What's the other alternative? It should help his numbers...only if he lowers consistency too.

Otherwise, Dai, your statement is dead on.

It's a conundrum for sure!

My own thoughts are that since the HR/FB rate at default is waaayy too high, the power slider is the one to lower - my theory being that more fly balls will be caught rather than leaving the park. You can see from Nomo's numbers that HR's account for most of the additional hits -- the main aim should be to reduce them, rather than reducing the number of singles which I think lowering the contact slider would do.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Gosh, that is a good point!

So many roads could lead to the same destination! LOL!

Reducing power definitely could reduce the HR's and in turn, lead to more pop outs.

But you have to remember, the 'walks' sliders are very limited. Power can be addressed in many ways where walks can't.

My gut tells me, from Nomo's results, that SB ability should be dropped, while frequency should be raised.

Now, lowering the fouls slider will cause more swing throughs, but more than likely, will also reduce pitch counts.

Since his averages are high, strikeouts are low, and fouls are high...the least invasive way to handle this...without drastically skewing his other stats...and point-blank addressing the most pressing concerns...is to lower contact. And drop consistency.

Another thing: Wind should be lowered, no doubt. But when the wind blows in, HR's do take a big hit. My experience with this series says, that the wind blows OUT more than it does IN for some reason. Which, is really a shame. It basically forces CPU and MOM guys to eliminate it for testing purposes.

I'd say...address all facets other than WP for now. That needs a patch. Trying to fix them with sliders will kill all other real to life results...in my opinion anyway.

[Snake.Plissken]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Right. But remember, he has consistency at default. Like you did, that will need to be lowered in order to increase BB/9. And lowering contact will kill three birds with one stone.

You don't need to lower pitcher consistency to get more walks; put control and consistency at 7 with strike frequency at default and the CPU is pretty much as wild as it could be and throws way too many balls, and racks up far too many wild pitches. Consistency and control work in tamdem and are not completely separate entities, there's a shared dependence with the 2 sliders. Plus, you need to raise consistency because the wild pitches are too high.

From the stats, solid hits will lower/increase hit totals and is very powerful unlike last year where it didn't affect hit totals at all. Solid hits at 0 on Legend completely cripples offenses. I would say lowering contact a notch will increase swings and misses a touch while increasing Ks a touch, which were a tad low. I would say go only as low as 4 with contact because the CPU chases enough at 3 on Legend and you're on All-Star. Timing is a less powerful slider than contact and should slightly increase swings and misses and slightly reduce foul balls per each notch. You do have the foul ball frequency slider though for that.

I don't really have an idea to change the ground ball to fly ball ratio though.

[Snake.Plissken]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

My own thoughts are that since the HR/FB rate at default is waaayy too high, the power slider is the one to lower - my theory being that more fly balls will be caught rather than leaving the park. You can see from Nomo's numbers that HR's account for most of the additional hits -- the main aim should be to reduce them, rather than reducing the number of singles which I think lowering the contact slider would do.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.

Power definitely has to be lowered. I've always lowered power in this series as every game is always too "poppy" at default power, this year is no different. And, it just might be the solution to the other issues as well.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Snake, difficulty is irrelevant in CPU games. I'm 99% on that.

I agree with your take on contact, and 4 as a starting point.

But your take on consistency in not 'consistent'...heh, so to say...with what I've seen in this game.

Check the other thread on CPU games and look at what happened when Daiyoung lowered it to 1. His walks increased! It's not a coincidence.

[Snake.Plissken]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Snake, difficulty is irrelevant in CPU games. I'm 99% on that.

I agree with your take on contact, and 4 as a starting point.

But your take on consistency in not 'consistent'...heh, so to say...with what I've seen in this game.

Check the other thread on CPU games and look at what happened when Daiyoung lowered it to 1. His walks increased! It's not a coincidence.

I guess you're right with difficulty, I only mentioned it because Nomo said he was using All-Star difficulty in the first post, which shouldn't make a difference.

I'm not saying you HAVE to increase the pitcher consistency slider to get more walks, I'm just saying you CAN increase it and get more walks. Try for one game consistency and control at 7 and strike frequency at default, the CPU is going to be really wild. And, I didn't say lowering consistency would result in less walks either, you have to find the right settings for both consistency and control to get a proper ball/strike ratio. Both sliders depend on each other, they are not separate entities where you can just say lower consistency for more walks and not take into account the control slider.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Snake, difficulty is irrelevant in CPU games. I'm 99% on that.

I agree with your take on contact, and 4 as a starting point.

But your take on consistency in not 'consistent'...heh, so to say...with what I've seen in this game.

Check the other thread on CPU games and look at what happened when Daiyoung lowered it to 1. His walks increased! It's not a coincidence.

I guess you're right with difficulty, I only mentioned it because Nomo said he was using All-Star difficulty in the first post, which shouldn't make a difference.

I'm not saying you HAVE to increase the pitcher consistency slider to get more walks, I'm just saying you CAN increase it and get more walks. Try for one game consistency and control at 7 and strike frequency at default, the CPU is going to be really wild. And, I didn't say lowering consistency would result in less walks either, you have to find the right settings for both consistency and control to get a proper ball/strike ratio. Both sliders depend on each other, they are not separate entities where you can just say lower consistency for more walks and not take into account the control slider.

Okay...this is a good post. Your mindset is dead on, but I think you and I disagree on one key thing:

The control slider. Do you believe that lowering control (and only control) will increase a hitter's batting average?

I have a feeling that I know the answer...otherwise you wouldn't treat it so casually.

[Snake.Plissken]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Okay...this is a good post. Your mindset is dead on, but I think you and I disagree on one key thing:

The control slider. Do you believe that lowering control (and only control) will increase a hitter's batting average?

I have a feeling that I know the answer...otherwise you wouldn't treat it so casually.

I'm not sure if lowering control will increase averages, I think it may depend on the where the consistency slider is at. For example, with control and consistency at both 7, you'd probably see higher averages compared to both of the sliders at 5 (default) because of the CPU's wildness and more hitter's counts. In another scenario, I could see lowering control lowering averages. I use both consistency and control together to get a good ball/strike ratio with the proper amount of wild pitches, not to alter averages, which you can use the hitting sliders for. Solid hits actually works the way it's supposed to this year, last year it didn't alter averages. I don't see the need to use the control slider to alter offensive stats when changing the control slider just one notch can mess up your ball/strike ratio if you are changing control independent of consistency.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Thanks for the discussion guys.

Okay, so I've decided on what to experiment with next. I'm not necessarily trying to get most stats right at once, just trying to use slightly exaggerated set to see the way I'm moving sliders could end up correcting for the stats difference that I posted above.

I'm not making any suggestion so try not to start RTTS or franchise on this.

On the scale of 0 - 10 (5 being default), I change the following sliders:

Contact: 3
Power: 4
Pitcher Control: 0
Fielding Error: 8
Steal Ability: 3
Steal Frequency: 9

Comments: I chose this set based on the discussions by DaiYoung & Co. in the CPU vs CPU thread, and a few posts above. I lowered contact basically hoping heroesandvillians's thesis is right. Power is the same as DaiYoung since it appears that's enough to suppress very inflated power number.

I decided to go way extreme with pitcher control to see its effect on BB. DaiYoung & Co. is changing only pitcher consistency, so the idea here is to find other ways to increase BB. BB obviously is something that's rather frequent and important for the game that's way off as it is, so it would be good to find more ways to have control on it if possible. Control as opposed to consistency also might be good slider to change given that it should not increase HBP, WP, etc. significantly. I was also bit surprised DaiYoung saw quite a significant reduction in offensive number; I suspect that might be partly due to the fact that hitters are not getting enough hittable pitches by reducing consistency significantly. Anyways, this part is pure experiment, so I just wanna see how things come out.

At default, throwing errors are way more frequent, so I'm increasing fielding error slider hopefully to fill in the missing error numbers. Also increased steal frequency and reduced steal success in hope of matching the stats to real life.

I think the walk will be the toughest part. Will see how it goes.

[DaiYoung]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Thanks for the discussion guys.

Okay, so I've decided on what to experiment with next. I'm not necessarily trying to get most stats right at once, just trying to use slightly exaggerated set to see the way I'm moving sliders could end up correcting for the stats difference that I posted above.

I'm not making any suggestion so try not to start RTTS or franchise on this.

On the scale of 0 - 10 (5 being default), I change the following sliders:

Contact: 3
Power: 4
Pitcher Control: 0
Fielding Error: 8
Steal Ability: 3
Steal Frequency: 9

Comments: I chose this set based on the discussions by DaiYoung & Co. in the CPU vs CPU thread, and a few posts above. I lowered contact basically hoping heroesandvillians's thesis is right. Power is the same as DaiYoung since it appears that's enough to suppress very inflated power number.

I decided to go way extreme with pitcher control to see its effect on BB. DaiYoung & Co. is changing only pitcher consistency, so the idea here is to find other ways to increase BB. BB obviously is something that's rather frequent and important for the game that's way off as it is, so it would be good to find more ways to have control on it if possible. Control as opposed to consistency also might be good slider to change given that it should not increase HBP, WP, etc. significantly. I was also bit surprised DaiYoung saw quite a significant reduction in offensive number; I suspect that might be partly due to the fact that hitters are not getting enough hittable pitches by reducing consistency significantly. Anyways, this part is pure experiment, so I just wanna see how things come out.

At default, throwing errors are way more frequent, so I'm increasing fielding error slider hopefully to fill in the missing error numbers. Also increased steal frequency and reduced steal success in hope of matching the stats to real life.

I think the walk will be the toughest part. Will see how it goes.

Be interested to see how these work out, Nomo, especially in respect of the pitch control at 0. Lowering pitch consistency has certainly helped with the walks but the number of WP is annoying.

Wind still at default?

[Snake.Plissken]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Lowering pitch consistency has certainly helped with the walks but the number of WP is annoying.

That's exactly why I recommend to increase both control and consistency, which if set properly will increase walks from the default settings without even messing with the strike frequency slider along with getting wild pitches under control. It's my philosophy that if you have to mess with the strike frequency slider, you don't have your control and consistency sliders properly set, and you are then using the strike frequency slider to band-aid over the fact that you're ball/strike ratio is off. I guarantee you will see increased walks with control and consistency at 7 with strike frequency at default, but the CPU will be really wild, you will have too many balls, and wild pitches. I'm just giving you these settings so you can try it for one quick game and see the huge increase in balls that raising these sliders can have. I find that consistency at 8 and control at 7 is just right, your wild pitches will be down and the ball/strike ratio will be solid.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

Wind still at default?

Yeah, I considered turning off while experimenting (should have), but decided to keep it at default. I'm still keeping track of it, so removing games with high wind can be done later as well, so that's another reason.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-based sliders for CPU

if set properly will increase walks from the default settings without even messing with the strike frequency slider along with getting wild pitches under control. It's my philosophy that if you have to mess with the strike frequency slider, you don't have your control and consistency sliders properly set, and you are then using the strike frequency slider to band-aid over the fact that you're ball/strike ratio is off.

I read similar discussions from the last year's threads. IIRC from those threads, the rationale to increase the consistency/control in an attempt to increase BB is that when pitcher AI has more confidence in their command, they keep painting corners (rather than pitching down the middle) for strikes in hitters count, and hence sometime these end up in walks, whereas pitches aimed at center of zone rarely end up in balls.

The reason why I try to go by stats in this thread is numbers are basically the best we can do to be objective, and philosophies are often unfounded. So I'm not sure what to take away from the suggestions to increase control/consistency since nobody has posted stats with sufficient sample size. If all else fail, I might try upping those to see what's suggested really happen. But if you already have the stats to substantiate your claim, could you share some stats?