Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

[mjb2124]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

yeah i hear ya....it could be deadly.

what would be nice is if playing on lengend+ using this tool (gimmick for naysayers) & have some real battles.


but you're right...it could be cheat city if implemented wrong

Yep, it really depends on how it's implemented. I love the idea that the AI seems to be driven by a model such as this, but I also don't want something that's going to "tell me" how to achieve success.

With that said, who knows? We'll find out in a few months!

[SoMiss2000]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

I'm going into this game expecting the worst. I hope i'm surprised.

[ehh]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

This feature sounds great on the surface, but it'll be worthless crap if poorly implemented. I'll be holding my breath.

[Blzer]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

IMO this technology is useless if Player Stats are not going to be realistic as the season progresses...

Good call… I never thought of that. However, I think they mentioned that this would directly tie in with V.I.P., so I think that at least our profiles will be similar to this. I sure hope that the players have this, too.

[Graphik]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

What I gathered from the IGN interview about it being used in the game is that you can buy "points" and put them towards a certain player on the opposition. Let's say the pitcher for example.

When I'm batting, it will essentially tell me that pitcher's tendencies by using percentages (ie: with this count this pitcher throws a fastball 20% of the time, slider 60% of the time, curve 10% and changeup 10%). It might also tell me the location. So I could sit on slider low and away and there would be a 60% chance that pitch would end up in that region.

If the IGN interview was correct, it's definately not my cup of tea. It's like a cheat that tells me what pitch is coming. If I were pitching, it would tell me the ideal pitch/location to throw to a certain batter in a certain circumstance. Just my opinion, but why not just sit back, watch and let the game play itself?

I dont think it would be that much of a dead giveaway.

Think about it like this. You guess right on the pitch early in the game because of the pitchers tendencies. Later in the 6th or 7th inning, when you need to move some runners over, you sit on that pitch and he throws something completely diffrent at you causing a....swingnamiss. Just because the percentage is 60% that he'll throw it in this zone does'nt mean he'll do it.

Plus, from what I gather, you'll only be able to spend a certain amount of points each game so it would make sense if you can pick the starting pitcher but if you get him pulled early, you're back in the dark with the relievers. OR...if you scout the starting pitcher, you'll still be in the dark about the relievers. There are many more variable than what you guys are thinking.

Plus consider this, if you scouted a pitcher and you figured out his pattern, would'nt that make you feel like you did something right? I'm sure the best in the majors wont be so easy to figure out because you still gotta look out for their stuff. Even if you know he'll throw a slider down and in, will you still be able to hit it?

[skinz]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

What I gathered from the IGN interview about it being used in the game is that you can buy "points" and put them towards a certain player on the opposition. Let's say the pitcher for example.

When I'm batting, it will essentially tell me that pitcher's tendencies by using percentages (ie: with this count this pitcher throws a fastball 20% of the time, slider 60% of the time, curve 10% and changeup 10%). It might also tell me the location. So I could sit on slider low and away and there would be a 60% chance that pitch would end up in that region.

If the IGN interview was correct, it's definately not my cup of tea. It's like a cheat that tells me what pitch is coming. If I were pitching, it would tell me the ideal pitch/location to throw to a certain batter in a certain circumstance. Just my opinion, but why not just sit back, watch and let the game play itself?

Hmm... This sounds like Baseball Live 2005, japanese baseball game.



see, those charts tell you when a pitcher is going to throw a certain type of pitch on a particular count. As in this example, on a 2-0 count the pitcher will definately thrwo a fastball

Red= fastballs
Blue= breaking ball
yellow= off speed


I think that is how it will work.

[K_GUN]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

I doubt I'm in the wrong thread... I'm not talking about Stat overlays or stat pages. I'm talking about actual Player Stats as the season progresses. This has been a major problem, especially when @ the end of the year, players have unrealistic stats. Does this Technology help in making those stats as accurate to their real-life counterparts or not. That is my question.

IMO this technology is useless if Player Stats are not going to be realistic as the season progresses... This has been a major problem in Sports Gaming. If this doesn't help bring real-life Statistics, then I strongly suggest that 2k inquire about STATS, INC.

then be more specific next time...and since i started the thread pertaining to ratings/tendecncies and NOT stat engines for franchise i think u should start your own thread (a valid one at that)

[mjb2124]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

I dont think it would be that much of a dead giveaway.

Think about it like this. You guess right on the pitch early in the game because of the pitchers tendencies. Later in the 6th or 7th inning, when you need to move some runners over, you sit on that pitch and he throws something completely diffrent at you causing a....swingnamiss. Just because the percentage is 60% that he'll throw it in this zone does'nt mean he'll do it.

Plus, from what I gather, you'll only be able to spend a certain amount of points each game so it would make sense if you can pick the starting pitcher but if you get him pulled early, you're back in the dark with the relievers. OR...if you scout the starting pitcher, you'll still be in the dark about the relievers. There are many more variable than what you guys are thinking.

Plus consider this, if you scouted a pitcher and you figured out his pattern, would'nt that make you feel like you did something right? I'm sure the best in the majors wont be so easy to figure out because you still gotta look out for their stuff. Even if you know he'll throw a slider down and in, will you still be able to hit it?

I agree that just because it states 60% chance of a slider low and away, the pitcher won't necessarily throw that pitch in that location. I just am not sure I like the idea that I even know the percentages (although by not scouting, that would solve that problem).

IMO much depends on how it's implemented. Personally, from games past, I like when I remember what a pitcher has done to a certain batter throughout the game and think to myself "Pitcher A has been drilling me inside all game and all I have to show for it is a groundout and popup. Next time I'm looking in and drilling it". Then I do so. Very satisfying IMO because I kept a mental note of that and then did what I set out to do.

I guess this is the same thing, but it's not as dependent on the user remembering what happened in previous AB's. It's kind of like a crutch.

In any case, this is a minor concern for me. This game has many, many things they need to fix before I worry about this (plus there's always the option to not spend points).

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

then be more specific next time...and since i started the thread pertaining to ratings/tendecncies and NOT stat engines for franchise i think u should start your own thread (a valid one at that)

The title of this thread is misleading if you want to technical. Inside Edge says nothing about Player Ratings. It talks about player AI. The title of your thread is:

"Inside Edge" Sim Heaven when looked @ makes me thing were talking SIMULATION which not only is about AI. It's about Stat's also, that's why I asked the question if reference to Inside Edge & how this technology/engine will interact with Player Progression & Player Stats as the season goes along.

That was it. There's no need to be demading about "YOUR" thread. I never knew threads were selective in reference to what is posted in them...

[baa7]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

I doubt I'm in the wrong thread... I'm not talking about Stat overlays or stat pages. I'm talking about actual Player Stats as the season progresses. This has been a major problem, especially when @ the end of the year, players have unrealistic stats. Does this Technology help in making those stats as accurate to their real-life counterparts or not. That is my question.

IMO this technology is useless if Player Stats are not going to be realistic as the season progresses... This has been a major problem in Sports Gaming. If this doesn't help bring real-life Statistics, then I strongly suggest that 2k inquire about STATS, INC.

Obviously, Inside Edge has to do with programming player ratings to emulate the real stats of MLB players. And you're correct: the player stats/ratings last year were terrible. 2/3 of the so-called ratings (vs L&R) were simply made-up nonsense. Second, the game programming was such that these (invented) ratings never resulted in stats that mirrored the stats of players' real-life counterparts. Good points you're bringing up

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

Obviously, Inside Edge has to do with programming player ratings to emulate the real stats of MLB players. And you're correct: the player stats/ratings last year were terrible. 2/3 of the so-called ratings (vs L&R) were simply made-up nonsense. Second, the game programming was such that these (invented) ratings never resulted in stats that mirrored the stats of players' real-life counterparts. Good points you're bringing up

Hopefully this technology will carry-over into player stats & player progression Baa7. As much as we both played & edited 2K5, it was a pain-in-da-@$$ to some realistic stats during the season.

[baa7]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

Hopefully this technology will carry-over into player stats & player progression Baa7. As much as we both played & edited 2K5, it was a pain-in-da-@$$ to some realistic stats during the season.

The sad thing is MLB 2K5 plays a pretty realistic game stat-wise once all those ratings edits are made. Too bad they didn't bother taking the time to test the game and adjust the ratings accordingly, before releasing it. Take something as simple as pitch speeds. How any P's in the game throw FB's @ 100 mph+? Plenty. How many do in real life? Any? And all it takes is lowering the top FB pitch speed to 94, instead of the 97 they programmed in the game.

These are the exact same problems NFL 2K5 has: the game play works decently only after extensive ratings adjustments -- something none of the programmers and testers apparently cared about and/or bothered checking.

[JaSnake16]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

I know Ill probably get killed for this.

I think this, in my opinion (again if implemented right) is a fantastic idea. I know alot of people are gonna say, but i wanna control my own destiny i dont wanna know whats coming, but there is a reason its called tendecies. This is what these guys do in REAL LIFE. When youre standing up there against say Randy Johnson and with an 2 - 1 count he likes to throw his slider middle in to a righty batter 65% of the time, thats cause 65% of the time he REALLY does it. We always are yearning as baseball gamers for that immense realism in our gaming experience. I wanna really see that slider 65% of the time cause if im standing in there against him in a game in real life thats what he'll do. Sure there is still 35% of the chance that he'll throw something else somewhere else, but thats what a good math engine will determine, and it also doesnt mean that (again if implemented right) you are gonna be standing there and you know its coming so you constantly jacking them over the wall. Maybe it will be middle in off the plate, maybe he tries to go middle in and he hangs it right down b'way.

If implemented wrongly or broken (especially since last years bug fest was bad out of the box this is a good assumption) then we have every right to be concerned that this will make it a cheat fest. But I would be willing to at least say that this is a step towards the realism that we have been striving for.

[GSW]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

What I gathered from the IGN interview about it being used in the game is that you can buy "points" and put them towards a certain player on the opposition. Let's say the pitcher for example.

When I'm batting, it will essentially tell me that pitcher's tendencies by using percentages (ie: with this count this pitcher throws a fastball 20% of the time, slider 60% of the time, curve 10% and changeup 10%). It might also tell me the location. So I could sit on slider low and away and there would be a 60% chance that pitch would end up in that region.

If the IGN interview was correct, it's definately not my cup of tea. It's like a cheat that tells me what pitch is coming. If I were pitching, it would tell me the ideal pitch/location to throw to a certain batter in a certain circumstance. Just my opinion, but why not just sit back, watch and let the game play itself?

Good post... But, i disagree

I always say at work "People say that want REAL, but they dont really want REAL"... they have given you tools in the game to use, that REAL LIFE teams and players use on a game to game basis. Its about as "Sim" as you can get.
But people are saying how its "cheating", when in reality its not.

Quick example (basketball): If you are on a team, and ive watched tape of you play, and i know that you always liek to go to your right, then do a pull back, dribble, then immediatly shoot a jumper. I should be able to succsefully defend your shot. Saying this, just because i succsefully defend your shot, DOES NOT mean i will block, or be able to stop the shot from going in, IF im a good defender,my percentage of stopping you will raise, but if im weak, regardless if i know what your doing or not, im going to be more unsuccseful then succsesful.

When i foundout about this feature at work I was all over it, making sure it was legit and not fake or anything, and it isnt. I think for baseball fans/purists, its the MLB's version of tendency sliders, only... WAAAAAY more accurate.

[Blzer]

Re: Inside Edge....Sim heaven??

I think the problem that joeboo is having is that, when you think about it, one scout will team the other, and vice versa. When we're playing the CPU, I'm not sure if we're going to be playing a team that had previously "scouted" us and exploited our weaknesses... and that only we're doing that. Perhaps this will fall in to the AI Skill slider, and perhaps they do take advantage of what's put into our Virtual Identity Profile (or the players themselves).

Let's just hope and pray that this was not a half-assed feature. Granted... even half-assed is a lot, but this is a feature that requires a LOT to be no-assed.