Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

[baa7]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

If you guys think attributes are too hard to come up with for everything but the cursor landing features, fine. But implementing the features will improve gameplay and all of the features in general will address gripes people are having.

For me, it's not a question of improving gameplay by adding even more defensive ratings and what have you. The problem is the ratings they already include in these games are seldom programmed properly.

For example, if a player is rated 5 out of 100 at an unfamiliar defensive position - and all are - then if I play that player out of postion, I should be seeing misplays and delayed responses and reactions to balls hit in their direction. As it is now, I could play Jason Giambi at SS and see no real noticeable dropoff in his defensive play compared with Jeter (and back off all you Jeter haters! ) Likewise, if I drop a SS's arm rating to 0, he should be tossing the ball in the dirt all day on throws to 1st (which was the case Sammy Sosa High Heat BTW). But these games are never programmed properly, which is why I'm saying they simply need to stick with and program the defensive ratings they have now, only program them correctly.

[jim416]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

You scolded people for not responding.

I took a look at how long this was and knowing how much a perfectionist you appear to be and just told myself it wasn't worth the read. You care about how far the video cartoon players hands are from the knob of the bat and how far his stride is. Good for you, but most us would like to first see basic gameplay sort of perfected. From what I see of the videos I, imho, see great improvement over last years videos which WERE HORRIBLE, imo. It seems, historically, it's babysteps with these games.

If you would have said you shared your ideas with the developers and posted a third of that I think everyone would have said, "great".

They can't address something when they don't know what the individual problems are

Well, they read the boards. I think it must be pretty difficult to get joe schmo off a college team to come in and do motion caps and get every nuance of somebodies swing down perfectly. They go have to "move on" and get the game out when we all want them, like end of February. I'm also sure they have guys sitting there and saying "that doesn't look right", but then it may become a programming problem, no? They might also be showing developers the front door if the go into fits about not having a batters grip and follow through perfectly. I don't know, but there's a lot more involved here than just perfection down to the absolute most detail.

[baa7]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

I didn't criticize people for not responding to my post, but I question their reasoning for entering the thread in the first place.

And when has that not been an issue here or on any other forum? People love to foist their opinions on others, regardless of how relevent those opinions are to the topic at hand

[baa7]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

You care about how far the video cartoon players hands are from the knob of the bat and how far his stride is.

If a player's hand is too close to his knob, it would be a concern to me as well.

[jim416]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

I'm sure you're speaking from personal experience.

Post a video.

[baa7]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

I'm sure you're speaking from personal experience.

Post a video.

Too large to upload...

[Scooter3]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

My Grandma used to call me up on the phone and blurt out "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" not hello, how are you, like normal people might say..I was always caught off guard by this so I thought I'd throw her a curve the next time she calls.. So the next time she called:

She said: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" I said "Grandma can I just do it until I need glasses?" She had a great sense of humor and got a big kick out of it..

Come to think of it after that she would say "Hello how are you doing"

Anyway my point is this why not use that same "STICK" dexterity we all perfected in our youth and apply it to this games defense?

Just simplify, and take the "STICK" in one hand then direct the player in any direction, the further you push the stick away from center the faster he runs. If you want him to dive just push the stick in as he is running...If you want him to attempt robbing a homer push in when the stick is centered...

I don't want to have to learn how to play the piano first so I can play defence...

I want something simple that incorporates instink...

Scooter...

[baa7]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Anyway my point is this why not use that same "STICK" dexterity we all perfected in our youth and apply it to this games defense?

Just simplify, and take the "STICK" in one hand then direct the player in any direction, the further you push the stick away from center the faster he runs. If you want him to dive just push the stick in as he is running...If you want him to attempt robbing a homer push in when the stick is centered...

I agree with that completely. I'm becoming a 'the fewer the controls, the better' sort of gamer as the years pass. Nothing wrong with adding a few more ratings that affect the player's ability to make the play, but keep the controls simple.

[Blzer]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

If this was read, you would have known that this is an advanced control scheme, while you guys can still keep the basic control scheme.

[baa7]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

If this was read...

Hmm.

Anyway... you posted some thoughts. Others are suggesting these additions aren't necessarily needed to improve the game. That's what's going on here, and what happens when you choose to post thoughts on a public forum.

And where I disagree with you is your assertion that these additions will somehow make the game more realistic and sim. IMO, a complicated control scheme simply makes it more complicated to play the game. I understand how it could be fun and a challenge for some, which is great. But complicated and challenging isn't necessarily a pre-requisite for achieving realistic and sim gameplay.

[Blzer]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

A new control scheme isn't necessary for players to be able to make angles without doing cutbacks, "strafe" under fly balls, and have first-step/second-step animations to start their running. Sprinting is the same button as turbo... not much more to think of there. If you want to get into the advanced controls, football games have a catch button, people don't seem to complain.

Basically, it's not too complicating if you use the basic controls, but the features do, in fact, improve gameplay.



I can see this thread has run its course, and I will not comment in this thread again unless I get some constructive criticism on the subject matter. I understand that I may sound rude here, but I was just hoping for some feedback on the features rather than the control scheme. If the mods could please lock (not delete) this, I won't bother posting about this again until I include post-catch features along with visual diagrams, "chapters", and lack of infidelity on my part when I try to portray you fellow members. If these features make it into 2K8, I'd say that most people would not have as many complaints about defense as they do now.

[jim416]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Geez Blzer, chill out.

[Jimplication]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

What's this all about?

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

[B]PRO CONTROL DEFENSE







</o> So, that’s what I have to say about “Pro Control Defense”. Of course, as an alternative, I suppose the things such as having to catch, strafe, shade the sun, etc. can be automatic through a basic control system (though sprinting should probably not be one of those things considering you want to see the ball when you choose to want to… but just remember that you still can’t catch the ball as you sprint).

I think you hit the nail on the head here. The suggestions you made should at some point be in the basic programming of the defense. The advanced controls, as far as having to do them manually, sound too clunky to much of a pain in the *** really. No offense. I shoudn't have to control whether or not my player shades his eyes from the sun when logically he should do it anyway as part of the game regardless if they are "advanced" controls or not. Much like in one of the video Crisp is looking at the wall, back up at the ball, back at the wall ect. That was done automatically as part of the programming and is a nice touch. I'm not sure that having all these extra manual controls would make it any better of a gaming experience, in fact IMO it would hinder it.

I agree there needs to be more attributes/animations(1st/2nd step) but if they are going to add them they need to be programmed correctly into the game and not just be there to be there. You can always improve the animations and attributes in a game but you need to make sure they worked properly.

I guess my basic point is that rather than trying to come up with a new control sysytem i think your ideas would be much better served as far as new ideas for the basic programming of the defense.

[Scottdau]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

What's this all about?

Blzer and his knowledge of baseball!