Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

[therizing02]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Geez Blzer, chill out.

{shakes head} This seems to happen every year about this time:

Info trickles out about MLB 2Kx

People start to get excited because we need a baseball fix

BLZER posts Ron Emanski type videos

Blzer does an EXCELLENT job pointing out little differences between the current version and last year's version.

Everyone posts the "obligatory it looks good, but I'm holding out for the gameplay videos"

The over analyzing of where numbers are positioned on the jersey and a hitters hands on the bat continue.

Blzer eventually starts to take criticisms towards the game too personally and claims that he'll refrain from posting.

Blah blah blah...

We ALL know that you are by far the biggest fan of this series and I for one look forward to your comments and comparisons, but just accept that the criticisms are towards the game and not you. I have to think that the actual developers and producers take this less personally than you.

Keep up the comparisons Blzer. You have a good swing too.

[yantis0524]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

PRO CONTROL DEFENSE




Table of Contents:

- Intentions of use for PCD
- Control Scheme
- Momentum (explained and expanded)

• First-step, second-step animations and attributes
• Running animations (while tracking the ball, sprinting, or shading the sun)
• Strafing

- Catching (manually)
- Leaping/Diving
- Fly Ball Landing Cursor (taking on what SCEA done and doing much more)

• Cursor radius, and how it shrinks
• Cursor "shakiness"
• Times of invisible cursor

- Wrapping it up and tying it with a bow
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</o> This is a very long read, but very special to me. I feel that this is one true thing that will make defense stand out in a baseball game, especially if executed properly. The ultimate sim experience, and total control both take effect. There is no longer any boredom in defense while playing, and everything has a consequence if you don’t choose to play your cards right. Not to mention this will really distinguish the good fielders from the bad, especially when it comes to outfielding.
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</o> First, let me begin by saying that I thought of the fly ball landing cursor feature that you see in MLB: The Show today two years before they implemented it. I posted it on the 2K Sports boards once, but a forum crash led to the deletion of that thread as well as many others. So I will expand on that notion of what I think we should be able to see with fly balls and many other things involving fielding the ball (this mainly concerns pre-catch field maneuvering).
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</o> Okay, now let’s begin with the new control scheme that I’ve come up with. Sprint (not turbo) will be the R-trigger (be it 360 or PS3), and Strafe (new to baseball gaming will be the L-trigger. Diving/leaping can be done with the right-analog stick, but I’ll get more in-depth on that later. There will also be a Catch/shade button, R1 on PS3 (I don’t know what the shoulder button is called for Xbox 360, so I’ll just call it R1 on here). Switching players is B (O), Calling off is X (Square), A can be used as an automatic dive animation, and Y as an automatic leaping animation… whatever animation the game decides is best for the situation.
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</o> Before we get into the controls, let me better explain momentum. Momentum in 2K6 was an okay first step, but everything was very basic and clunky… not to mention controls felt unresponsive. The problem was not necessarily that controls were unresponsive, but that the animations that the game was given made players take a while to get going. Not to mention the fact that sometimes a ball was hit in a hole where you thought you were one player, and ended up being the other. So, in response, you as the player may quickly press left and thereafter you would have to go right, which means two animations that are going to have to be done where the first one has to finish before the next one starts.
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</o> This is why players need a “first-step” animation… if not a second-step animation, if not a third-step animation. Every player would have an attribute that gives them good first-step reads, which will be user-controlled, but what it does is it makes your player do their first step faster or slower depending on how high/low the attribute is set. Now, this step may be in the wrong direction, so again… it depends on how the user does it. But this first step is nothing more than a step. No, your player is not beginning to stand up and run in motion. He is essentially still in his pre-pitch stance, and he will make the correct step accordingly: If it’s a ball hit behind the player, it would be a drop-step (with left foot if the ball is hit to the player’s left, with right foot if the ball is hit to player’s right, and with glove-sided foot if the ball is hit directly behind the player); if the ball is hit in front of the player, his first step will be left or right depending on which side the ball is hit on; hit to the left, first step to the left with the left foot; hit to the right, first step to the right with the right foot… etc. Now, if a ball is hit behind the player and to a certain direction, this is where you as the user need to think like a baseball player and create the angle by first doing a drop-step before you go off to the left or right.
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Now, players with a good first step will also probably have a good second-step… but maybe not. Again, this attribute determines how quickly they can take their step in another direction with their foot that is not their first-step foot (with a few exceptions). This step is also the “toe-pointer” into the right direction of where you are going to begin wanting to run (normally this is where their lower body will begin their contortion to face where they’re intending to run). Now, this is where it’s good if you’re a good second-step guy… because if your player begins by going back when the ball is in fact in, he will take his drop-step as his first step, but now his second-step will instantly push his drop-step foot forward for him to begin coming forward. This way, your player never turned around, got into a running animation, or moved his planted foot (this is one of those exceptions). Likewise, if you began by going right and the ball ends up tailing to the left, your second step will be with your left foot to the left as you plant your first-step right foot into the ground. Now, if you were going the right way the whole time, then your first step would be just to start your momentum that way, and your second step would be to continue that path with your other foot.
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The third-step attribute I’m still deciding on whether or not it’s plausible to have or need… but if you understand the first and second step thing, then I’m sure you would understand this one. But in the third step (regardless as to whether or not it’s really an attribute), there’s a good chance that your player’s entire body will now be facing the way that you need to go in order to begin your running animation.
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</o> Now come a few things that happen as you’re in your running animation. There will be attributes such as top speed (while tracking ball), top speed (while sprinting), top speed (while shading sun), acceleration, deceleration (either by letting go of the thumbstick, changing direction, or choosing to “Strafe”), and angling. All of these will be explained.
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Time to begin by explaining tracking ball attributes vs. sprinting attributes vs. shading sun atrributes. If you are running while “tracking the ball”, this is the default control where you’re just moving using the thumbstick. Your player will gradually accelerate to his top speed, and he still has the potential to catch a ball on the run.
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Sprinting… now this is where it gets tricky. Sprinting is not like turbo. You don’t get tired for the play from sprinting, and you don’t instantly go from a jog to a full-on sprint just by holding the R-trigger (since you need time to accelerate still). It has its advantages and it has its disadvantages. Advantage-wise, when you sprint, you run faster (no ****). As a matter of fact, no matter how the attributes are set, a player’s top speed running while tracking the ball will never defeat his top speed while sprinting, as that is unrealistic. So the attributes will be set in a way that sprinting > running while tracking ball regardless (so if you try to go less than or equal to the other attribute, it won’t allow you). You will also be able to be more efficient in your dives, and your leaps would be longer. Now, there are some major disadvantages. Running at top speed is pretty fast… it’s not like sprinting gets twice as fast. But, running still is slower. So, when you sprint, you are not focused on tracking a ball or catching a ball. So in that sense, your head is down and you are giving it your ALL. So that means two things: 1) If a fly ball was hit and you were tracking it while running by watching the fly ball landing marker, and you decide to sprint… the landing marker goes away. 2) Your head is down and you are using your arms to pump… therefore, it is not possible to catch a ball while sprinting, either (in real life, if you choose to stick your arm out to catch a ball, then you are not running your fastest). As for #1, if you think about it, this is realistic: You are not watching the ball, so you shouldn’t be able to see where it lands… however, if you have an idea as to where it’s going to land, then you should begin to sprint to that spot anyhow (this is what they do in real life if they need to). Along with that, when you look back up for the ball again, there may be a quick delay to regroup and “find the ball” again (more on that later). Remember that if you’re sprinting, it is harder to angle and it takes longer to decelerate as well. Though they might not be so noticeable, there still will be a difference.
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Now comes shading the sun. Remember, this is only effective when: A) It is day time; B) The sun is out, and; C) If your player’s vision is somewhat impaired by the sun. I will explain the attribute more later, but you can use it at any time. Anyway, again… you aren’t going to slow down SO much that you’re going to be jogging, but players obviously have more trouble running quickly while trying to find a ball in the sun. Again, this is done while holding onto R1, so when you decide to do so, you will lose speed… but your landing cursor will shrink in size (assuming your player is having sun battling troubles), you will be able to angle better, and you will decelerate quicker. It is possible to catch a ball with this and, if you decide to hold onto R1 the entire time, you will go straight into the catching animation when the ball drops to you since your glove is already raised. It is less effective to dive while shading, though.
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In regards to acceleration, your player will take the same amount of seconds to reach top speed in whichever running mode he is in. The difference is that the top speeds will vary. So, if you (hypothetically speaking) run at 12 MPH, sprint at 14 MPH, and run while shading the sun at 10 MPH and it takes 2 seconds to get from the beginning of your running animation to your top speed, then at 1 second, your player would be running at 6 MPH, sprinting at 7 MPH, and running while shading at 5 MPH (or whatever). Angling is the same concept, only as I said before… as you go faster, it is tougher to angle.
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</o> Now I’ll get into Strafing. If you’ve played ESPN NFL 2K5 or other games that utilize this kind of feature, you will understand what I’m talking about. I also believe that MVP sort of automatically does this when you go inside the landing cursor, and that’s one thing it can be effective for. It is also effective for fielding ground balls, getting behind a fly ball to build momentum for a throw, and it’s just so that you don’t mess up too much with a ball in the air as you are trying to redirect yourself since the landing cursor may shrink in a spot that you didn’t think it would first land. So, strafing is pretty much the act of facing home plate from wherever you are and being precise with your steps. You will creep up, back, side-step, etc. If you hold onto L and R at the same time (Strafe and Sprint), everything will be quickened, but in a strafe-like mode still. Like I said before, this is advised to use when you’re near catching a fly ball and you need to ensure it lands in your mitt. This is also advised when catching a ground ball so that you’re pretty much in the position that you need to be in to get straight up and fire a throw. Otherwise, you’ll be on the run somehow and will have to bend down while having to create a different angle or form of momentum to get a good throw off. Not to mention it’s simple to change direction, too. Your foot will just have to plant for the other foot to begin going the other direction. Too many times in 2K6 have I overran a ball that I didn’t intend to overrun, and if only there was a strafing system such as this, I would definitely benefit from it. You can still shade the sun while strafing as well. Diving and sliding are very ineffective from strafing, though.

Along with the idea of strafing comes a Proximity Intelligence attribute. This is what determines how fast or slow the player determines to strafe depending on how close he gets to the landing marker. So while holding onto L and R would make the fastest strafing possible, holding onto L can range from the fastest strafing possible to walking, depending on how small the target is getting and how close the player is (and how high his Proximity Intelligence attribute is). Remember that this doesn't mean you'll always be going at top strafing speed if your PI is at 0, but it will if you decide not to use the sensitivity of the thumbstick. You won't be zooming anyway, so it's not like it's too big of a deal. Along with this attribute, as just noted, is a Strafe Speed attribute (which is maximum speed while strafing).
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And just one final minor note about momentum: If you ever end up stopping (to change direction or whatever)… if you begin to start running again, it will be the equivalent to when you first began running on the play (meaning your first-step and second-step attributes will be in effect).
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</o> Time to just very briefly get into some of the other controls, like catching. I don’t quite know how to explain it, because it’s pretty self-explanatory. It is necessary to press the button to catch the ball. As it comes close to you, you press R1, and it will go in the appropriate catching animation needed. Note that you may not catch it if you’re not close enough to the ball, so even if you have no chance at catching a fly ball but you still want to “deke” to fool a runner, then go ahead and press the button as it’s about to fall. But nearly every runner would be pretty intelligent to see a ball that lands outside of a ten-foot radius of your player. Catching is necessary for any batted ball, and that’s it. Even if it’s a ball that is played off the wall or a ball that is bunted. It is not needed for other throws to other players though. Also, I suppose there should be a time when you should start your “catch”, but I’m not sure exactly when it should start. That’s why you can begin to start it whenever really if you want it to begin as “shading the sun” and blend in with the catching of the ball. It’s not a problem really, since you can still pre-load any throws you may want to do considering you’re not using those buttons for anything in particular.
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Now, diving. I’ve thought very little about this, but here’s how I think it should go. You will either go into a dive, slide, leap, or leaping dive depending on how you control your dive with the thumbstick (and depending on which way your player is going). If you’re running in for a ball, pointing it down will result in a dive, pointing it up will result in a slide, and pointing it to the left or right would result in a dive attempting to stick the glove to the left or right (or just trying to move that way in general, but you’ll barely move since you’re running inward). If you’re running back on a ball, pointing it upward is leaping, pointing it down is a leaping dive, and pointing it to the left and the right is essentially the same thing as running in on a ball. If you’re running to the left, pointing it up is leaping, pointing it down is a dive/slide attempting to get a ball falling shorter than expected (or trapping), pointing it left is diving, and pointing it right is sliding. When running to the right, it’s the same as the left with the left and right controls reversed. The catch button is not needed for diving.
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Calling the ball off and switching players is the same as 2K6 I guess.
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</o> Now, time to get into the fly ball landing cursor, and the attributes linked to it. The fly ball landing cursor is an idea that I’ve had two years before MLB ’06 came out, and I feel like it was taken from me in a way. Strange how these things happen. Remember that SCEA developed a system where there is a fly ball circle where the ball will land somewhere in that circle, and not necessarily the center. As a matter of fact, it may land on the very rim of what the outermost circle was… which is exactly as I had planned for mine to be like.
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However, my ideas on the landing cursor are expanded from what SCEA does with theirs, mainly in the sense that there is more than one attribute that determines a player’s probability of judging a fly ball well. First and foremost, there will be two different attributes on how a ball is regularly judged: 1) An initial fly ball read attribute (the very first read off of the bat, which will probably be rather large for most people… the smallest probably being a 10-foot radius, and the largest probably being 100 feet haha), and a “zone deceleration” attribute where a player is either quicker at judging it as it gets closer to them or slower. However, at the end no matter how large it is, it will eventually have to shrink down as it lands.
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</o> The final few things that are involved in a player’s reading a fly ball is their ability to maintain a stable “vision” as they’re running for the ball. Some players have more “bounce” than others. So there will be an attribute that determines how much the landing cursor will shake as a player is running for the ball. When they run faster, it will shake more. Remember that it is still a video game, so the shaking will never be so exaggerated that it should ever necessarily get annoying to watch while playing. As a matter of fact, most professional outfielders have near zero problem with this, so with some outfielders (if not most) you probably shouldn’t recognize this at all. But it’s good to have for those that might not be as good.
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Remember the “shading sun” section? Okay, well here are two attributes that players will have: 1) The ability to actually shade the sun and see the ball better, and 2) the ability to see the ball well without actually needing to shade the sun. I know that some players are better at doing #2 than others, and same goes for #1. These attributes only determine how much more the landing cursor will begin to shrink for said player than another. The other sun shading attributes have to do with the speed that the players can go, etc. Also, this could make sunglasses and eye black more than just visual accessories. So when a player wears one of these items, they have much less trouble tracking the ball (with sunglasses obviously being a bit more effective than eye black). But just remember that while you can enter this animation any time with a fly ball, that it would not be effective at night, with overcast skies, or if the sun isn’t in your player’s eyes. Since there is a real working and moving sun on the game, I assume that this is somehow possible.
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</o> Now, as you read earlier in the Sprint section, there are times when the ball disappears, so it needs to be picked up again. There is another time when this occurs, and it is when you’re running back on a ball (perhaps slightly to the right) and you need to change direction to run back on the ball slightly to your left, which means you lose sight of it for that quick second. So there will be an attribute that determines how quickly a player is at reading the ball again. Normally this shouldn’t take any longer than ¾ of a second, but sometimes that’s all it takes before it hits your noggin, right? So, like I said… this should happen after sprinting, and after changing direction where your head loses sight of the ball.
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</o> So, that’s what I have to say about “Pro Control Defense”. Of course, as an alternative, I suppose the things such as having to catch, strafe, shade the sun, etc. can be automatic through a basic control system (though sprinting should probably not be one of those things considering you want to see the ball when you choose to want to… but just remember that you still can’t catch the ball as you sprint). I must say myself, that I have had these things kept inside me for a long time, and it took me until now to finally decide to write it. I suppose this could be of my ultimate wishes for 2K8, but all of this has to be together, rather than just half-in and half-out. Otherwise it doesn’t quite work well. This is a way to describe how sprinting can be used in baseball, since sometimes it’s not best to use obviously. The only issue I see with this whole thing is that I don’t know how the developers would necessarily be able to configure this for every player (in terms of actually knowing how they do in said situations). But perhaps they could just make the better outfielders better in these things, the worse outfielders worse, and the guys that just plain aren’t outfielders plain suck at some of these things.
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This whole system also takes infielding into account when you consider Strafing, catching, maybe sprinting, diving, first/second steps, etc. Not to mention they sometimes field pop-ups as well. But this is really a big thing for outfielding, especially with all of the angling and fly ball landing cursor things.
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</o> By the way, one final slew of attributes that I thought up for throwing (which is post-catching the ball) is throwing power/accuracy when taking momentum into account… meaning throwing while running forward, fadeaway throws, and running from the side. This will make Jeter's and Furcal's throwing strengths distinguishable (Jeter is dominant with fadeaways as Furcal is dominant with forward movement), and outfielders that are better throwing from a crow-hop than those that aren’t, etc.
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</o> I’m done. I hope that people took the time to read this, because it’s a very long read. If anybody has the balls to find things to nitpick and respond, I’m all for listening. That’s why I’m here to post it… I want people’s input on what they think about this new system. If I could recreate this on some 3D animation thing, I would do it for you… makes things a lot easier to visualize if you can’t already. But if you can’t, then good for you. I could have taken more time to explain things for you to visualize it better, but I think that I wrote too much already, and I hope that this is enough for you guys to visualize. Have fun!!!

I like your ideas, just don't see it ever happening. I would definately like to see defensive ratings matter. The best teams in baseball are usually the ones strong in pitching and defense.

[Blzer]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

I like your ideas, just don't see it ever happening. I would definately like to see defensive ratings matter. The best teams in baseball are usually the ones strong in pitching and defense.

Well, thank you very much for legitimately responding.

I read what you had to say (about your first sentence), and I must say that I see only a few things difficult to come up with. The attributes for players may be very hard to measure, but like I said in the post, perhaps it's best to just rate all of the better outfielders higher in these regards.




As for the features, all of them are possible. Here's how I see them working:



First-step animations: Do a little bit of motion-capturing. Not too much, actually. In my opinion, how many directions do we need? Five at the minimum (step forward, back, away from body, then the two diagonals in between), right?. So, we choose five stepping directions. Now mirroring that image with the other foot when stepping the other way, that is 10 animations. Not a problem.


Second-step animations: This may be a little more, because now you have to consider which of the possible 8 directions will be needed from each of the first-step animations. If we began by stepping forward, now we can use our other foot to: continue forward, step away from body (but meet up with other foot), plant back again (to turn shoulders and committ back), and then the two diagonals again. Now, say that your first step was forward with your left foot, but you realize you have to turn left. Your second step, no matter which way you want to go left, will be an inward plant with your right foot. So total, that's 6 animations. Mirrored with the other foot is 12.

Now if we step away from our body, with our other foot we can then choose to: continue going that way, drop back, step forward, plant and step back the other way, the two diagonals going the way we initially began, and the plants going back the other way diagonally. This time, there are 8 directions, and mirrored makes another 8, which is 16.

If you can visualize it, the diagonals give you another 6 each (per foot), making a total of 48 more animations. That means that, with first/second-step animations, you would total to 86 very small and easy-to-capture animations. Those alone (which I'm sure it's possible to compress all of these, but I'm not the genius) would correct any problems there are in the infield when we overrun balls, and the outfield's first step problems (and corrected steps).


Sprinting: Simple. Keep it the same as turbo, only animate it so that the man's head is down and is just a-pumpin'. Take away the limit of sprinting, the fly ball cursor, and don't allow him to catch the ball at the time. Make angling a little tougher around the edges, and you have sprinting.


Strafing: It looks as though it has now been implemented "automatically" this year, but if they were to go for some of the landing cursor ideas for next year, they can't just settle for automatic. Just keep the same thing that they're doing, only allow it as a user-controlled feature as well (through advanced controls, of course). This is best used when you don't want to accidentally screw up and overrun a ball that you may misjudge just by a little bit, or when you want to build up momentum to fire a ball into the infield.


Shading the sun: Well, it's based on how the developers have actually developed the sun in the game. You see, when we consider the sun in the game, every stadium has a latitude, longitude, and orientation. That means that the sun will be at specific positions for specific stadiums at all times and will have different movement. Anyway, as the sun moves, you even see the player's self-shadowing move according to where the sun is, including the shading of the bill of the cap. This means the game recognizes what the sun shines on and what it doesn't. So, essentially... if the sun is in the player's eyes, then the attribute is needed. It's not perfect, but it works for the time being.

How do you as the user know when the sun is in the player's eyes? Let's go back to the old days of 2K where the cursor was a thick (I want to say red) rim where there was no sort of color or fill-in in the middle. This could be used for the sun feature. Perhaps, the more the ball is in the sun for them, the redder the middle will be. If you decide to cover it, depending on your rating, the red will either lessen or be unapparent (with that, your cursor will shrink for you). Or I guess we can still have that grayish-blue circle, but it still is redder as the sun is more in the player's eyes. I hope that makes sense. That way you know when to use it.


Angling: This is where I think they would have to re-think how the fielders turn, and this would need a complete overhaul. On this game, they design turning as "cut-backs", where pretty much no matter how you turn, even if it's 45*, your player will have to plant a foot and "cut" to make the turn. The way I see it, this is where Madden does something right, but I think it's a little too exaggerated. So, tone it down some and allow us to angle. We will "cut-back" when necessary (needing to go the complete opposite direction). That messes people up as well.





Hope all makes sense, considering all features are definitely possible. The question is how to attribute specific players when some of these things just flat out aren't measured in statistics. I guess time will tell on that. But these things would certainly improve defensive play. I didn't get to the fly ball landing cursor, because you guys should understand what I mean by what the cursor does (since SCEA uses it). Mine is just more difficult with the potential "randomness" of it, and the way that some of these features act upon it.


But thanks for reading, and thanks for the response.

[baa7]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Well, thank you very much for legitimately responding.

? Really Blzer, if you can't take people questioning your points and offering different perspectives, maybe you should consider not posting these long commentaries.

[Scottdau]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

I still don't get it make a video of it outside! Damn, I am becoming a man old man lol. Try to sell your idea's and make some money off it.

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

? Really Blzer, if you can't take people questioning your points and offering different perspectives, maybe you should consider not posting these long commentaries.

I agree completely. Somehow a 2 sentence response is "legitimate", but my two paragraphs aren't? Ha.

[Qb]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Blzer, I was thoroughly intrigued by your initial post. I think you brought some very good ideas to the table. I especially like the section on reading the ball off of the bat and first steps. Any good baseball man will tell you that is what separates a good fielder from a great one. Torii Hunter makes the diving, highlight reel catches all time not only because of his great athleticism, but due to his ability to know where the ball is going to be when it lands (or tries to go over the fence). This allows him to maximize his physical gifts and take the correct route to the ball which equals web-gem.

Now someone like Tike Redman (sorry disgruntled Pirates fan, he was with Mets last year) who is also a great athlete, only made a spectacular catch occasionally. Why? Because he couldn't read the ball of the bat as well and as a result would take an incorrect first step or a bad route, leaving him just short of the ball when it landed.

To make a point, if Redman and Hunter had identical speed/agility/etc ratings based on their athletic ability, Hunter would still be able to get to more balls (making him a better outfielder) if Blzer's ideas were implemented.

[Blzer]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

I still don't get it make a video of it outside! Damn, I am becoming a man old man lol. Try to sell your idea's and make some money off it.

For instance, the person that I'm now working with took my ideas like this:

From what I understand, it would work like this:
Situation:Your controlling the RF and the sun is setting almost directly behind home plate. There is a runner on secondbase and there is a high fly ball hit to the right center gap.

Your sprint (With R trigger) towards the gap and because you have Ichiro who gets great jumps, you are able to close ground quickly and get to the area where the ball is going to land. You get behind the ball. When you feel that the player should look up, you press the catch button (Other R trigger) which causes Ichiro to shade the sun in his eyes. You play the ball deep and press the Strafe (L trigger) to set up to make a strong throw to third. One your player catches the ball, you fire to third and since you've set your self up, you nail the SOB and yell "don't test this cannon" in Japanese

He neglected to mention the fact that when you sprint, you "lose sight of the ball" (the cursor disappears), and also that you can hold onto the Catch/Shade button from shading to catching for it to be a seamless act. But I think he got it right for the most part.

[Blzer]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

I think you hit the nail on the head here. The suggestions you made should at some point be in the basic programming of the defense. The advanced controls, as far as having to do them manually, sound too clunky to much of a pain in the *** really. No offense. I shoudn't have to control whether or not my player shades his eyes from the sun when logically he should do it anyway as part of the game regardless if they are "advanced" controls or not. Much like in one of the video Crisp is looking at the wall, back up at the ball, back at the wall ect. That was done automatically as part of the programming and is a nice touch. I'm not sure that having all these extra manual controls would make it any better of a gaming experience, in fact IMO it would hinder it.

I agree there needs to be more attributes/animations(1st/2nd step) but if they are going to add them they need to be programmed correctly into the game and not just be there to be there. You can always improve the animations and attributes in a game but you need to make sure they worked properly.

I guess my basic point is that rather than trying to come up with a new control sysytem i think your ideas would be much better served as far as new ideas for the basic programming of the defense.

Sorry, didn't see this post before.

I think that what you said is fair enough, but I think that shading your eyes from the sun should be in the game. Like I said, it makes use for eye-black/sunglasses... more than just an accessory. I just always thought that it would be a cool idea in a game.

Most of the other stuff I believe I described in that other semi-long post.

[Scottdau]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

For instance, the person that I'm now working with took my ideas like this:

He neglected to mention the fact that when you sprint, you "lose sight of the ball" (the cursor disappears), and also that you can hold onto the Catch/Shade button from shading to catching for it to be a seamless act. But I think he got it right for the most part.

Thats is cool, to me it is too hard! lol

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Sorry, didn't see this post before.

I think that what you said is fair enough, but I think that shading your eyes from the sun should be in the game. Like I said, it makes use for eye-black/sunglasses... more than just an accessory. I just always thought that it would be a cool idea in a game.

Most of the other stuff I believe I described in that other semi-long post.

WHile I agree it would be "cool" in the sense that it would be new and innovative, in the grand scheme of things it just seems kinda uneccessary to the whole game play issue.

[Blzer]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Well, what the sun thing had more to do with was make players that are better at it to prosper better. That would aid in some of the gripes people have when the CPU puts in David Ortiz to get to the 421 marker at AT&T Park and track down a fly ball.

The rest of the things, I believe, directly affect gameplay.

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Well, what the sun thing had more to do with was make players that are better at it to prosper better. That would aid in some of the gripes people have when the CPU puts in David Ortiz

Well if Ortiz is in the OF again this year the last things the game needs to worry about is the sun

The rest of the things, I believe, directly affect gameplay.

Obviously, but I think it would effect the gameplay and thus the game overall better if rather than a manual controlled system what you are talking about is programmed in.

[Blzer]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Well if Ortiz is in the OF again this year the last things the game needs to worry about is the sun

Users take advantage of this as well, especially online. Plus, that's like saying anything. We don't need some things that were added in this game if we still have issues like that. Bottom line, it's rough programming from Blue Shift transferred over to Kush that is pretty hard to work around. Lower than the bottom line, they are two different departments in creating the game. Memory is an issue before development time.

Obviously, but I think it would effect the gameplay and thus the game overall better if rather than a manual controlled system what you are talking about is programmed in.

As said before, there can be both mechanisms. There would be basic controls, as well as advanced controls. I for one would love to use the advanced controls, and IMO would be much easier to implement than the basic controls.

They aren't too bad, by the way. We strafe and catch in football games after all. I mean, I remember back in the day when people wanted nothing more than right-analog stick everything. Before, pitching was just point and press, but now there are meters, etc. It's not too complicating for us. We have contextual sliding while baserunning as well. I honestly think that defense is the least intuitive thing in baseball games, and is too basic. Not to mention hockey gamers live and die for the intuitive advanced controls.We can have the option of both, and it wouldn't hurt anybody.


Plus, you think this is advanced? Wait until I get into controls and features with the ball!

[Rainey]

Re: Pro Control Defense (the ULTIMATE defensive simulation experience... LONG READ)

Plus, you think this is advanced? Wait until I get into controls and features with the ball!

I'm afraid!