Another Scoring Bug

[NimitsTexan]

This may have been mentioned before (though I do not recall seeing it), but evidently if you have one or more runners on base in a force situation, and you attempt to force out any runner other than the batter and fail (all runners are safe), the game does not recognize it as a hit.

[TJdaSportsGuy]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

This may have been mentioned before (though I do not recall seeing it), but evidently if you have one or more runners on base in a force situation, and you attempt to force out any runner other than the batter and fail (all runners are safe), the game does not recognize it as a hit.

If I was the official scorekeeper, I wouldn't recognize it as a hit either. It's a fielder's choice. That's not a bug. From Wikipedia:

In baseball, a fielder's choice (abbreviated FC) is most often the act of a fielder, upon fielding a batted ball, choosing to try to put out one runner while in so doing allowing the batter-runner to advance to first base.

A batter who reaches base safely as the result of a fielder's choice is not credited with a hit; he is effectively charged with an out (and an at bat) just as if he had been put out himself.

[jake44np]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

If I was the official scorekeeper, I wouldn't recognize it as a hit either. It's a fielder's choice. That's not a bug. From Wikipedia:

Exactly! This is not a hit, it is a fielders choice.
Know the rules before you call something a bug!

[JT30]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

Exactly! This is not a hit, it is a fielders choice.
Know the rules before you call something a bug!

Jake44np

Before you go tell someone to "know the rules", you probably should understand the rules yourself.

Depending on the situation, this could have easily been scored of as a hit.

If you read the original post he said that the defensive team failed to force out a baserunner other than the batter-runner and everyone was safe. In this instance, it can either be scored as a base hit or a fielder's choice with or without an error.

If the defensive team is successful in forcing out another runner other that the batter-runner, then yes, it is scored as a FC.

So instead of jumping on this guy and telling him to know the rules, you should probably have a better understanding yourself.

[jake44np]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

Jake44np

Before you go tell someone to "know the rules", you probably should understand the rules yourself.

Depending on the situation, this could have easily been scored of as a hit.

If you read the original post he said that the defensive team failed to force out a baserunner other than the batter-runner and everyone was safe. In this instance, it can either be scored as a base hit or a fielder's choice with or without an error.

If the defensive team is successful in forcing out another runner other that the batter-runner, then yes, it is scored as a FC.

So instead of jumping on this guy and telling him to know the rules, you should probably have a better understanding yourself.

First off I know the rules, I played D1 college baseball and was a pitching coach for a D2 team.
In almost every situation that a batter hits a ball in the infield and the fielder tries to force out another runner and fails the batter is credited with a fielders choice not a hit. Maybe he should explain the exact thing that happened. Alls he stated was that batters are not credited with a hit when a fielder tries to force out a baserunner.

[JT30]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

First off I know the rules, I played D1 college baseball and was a pitching coach for a D2 team.
In almost every situation that a batter hits a ball in the infield and the fielder tries to force out another runner and fails the batter is credited with a fielders choice not a hit. Maybe he should explain the exact thing that happened. Alls he stated was that batters are not credited with a hit when a fielder tries to force out a baserunner.

lol... I played ball in college also, but I am not sure how that is relevant to this conversation. LOL...

Initially, you told this guy he didnt know the rules, but now you are saying there is a possibility he is right but should explain in more detail as to what happened in the play??? Maybe you should have asked him for more detail.

In any event, the scoring for this play is not necessarily a FC...

[jake44np]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

lol... I played ball in college also, but I am not sure how that is relevant to this conversation. LOL...

Initially, you told this guy he didnt know the rules, but now you are saying there is a possibility he is right but should explain in more detail as to what happened in the play??? Maybe you should have asked him for more detail.

In any event, the scoring for this play is not necessarily a FC...

So it is my responsibilty to for the orginal poster to explain in more detail the situation??!! Gimme a break Nell Carter.

[JT30]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

So it is my responsibilty to for the orginal poster to explain in more detail the situation??!! Gimme a break Nell Carter.

Nah.....you don't need to do that....but the point of the matter is that if you were clear as to how a FC may be scored, you wouldn't have told this guy he was wrong in assuming it should have been scored as a base hit.

[TJdaSportsGuy]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

Jake44np

Before you go tell someone to "know the rules", you probably should understand the rules yourself.

Depending on the situation, this could have easily been scored of as a hit.

If you read the original post he said that the defensive team failed to force out a baserunner other than the batter-runner and everyone was safe. In this instance, it can either be scored as a base hit or a fielder's choice with or without an error.

If the defensive team is successful in forcing out another runner other that the batter-runner, then yes, it is scored as a FC.

So instead of jumping on this guy and telling him to know the rules, you should probably have a better understanding yourself.

JT,

I was an official scorekeeper for 3 years in a College Summer League, so believe me when I tell you that I know the rules pretty well myself.

The defensive team does not have to record an out for it to be considered a fielder's choice. All they they have to do is attempt to record an out on a baserunner other than the batter, provided they COULD HAVE gotten the batter out if they threw to 1st. Successful or unsuccessful, it's still a fielder's choice and the batter does NOT get a hit in that situation.

[CFav]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

First off I know the rules, I played D1 college baseball and was a pitching coach for a D2 team.
In almost every situation that a batter hits a ball in the infield and the fielder tries to force out another runner and fails the batter is credited with a fielders choice not a hit. Maybe he should explain the exact thing that happened. Alls he stated was that batters are not credited with a hit when a fielder tries to force out a baserunner.

What school did you play for?

[JT30]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

JT,

I was an official scorekeeper for 3 years in a College Summer League, so believe me when I tell you that I know the rules pretty well myself.

The defensive team does not have to record an out for it to be considered a fielder's choice. All they they have to do is attempt to record an out on a baserunner other than the batter, provided they COULD HAVE gotten the batter out if they threw to 1st. Successful or unsuccessful, it's still a fielder's choice and the batter does NOT get a hit in that situation.

Yes I understand that... but how do you know the defensive team could have thrown the batter-baserunner out at first from what the initial poster posted? If they couldn't throw him out and their only option was to try a force play at third or second for instance, then batter is indeed credited with a base hit. Right?

Ok tell me how these should be scored...

1. With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball back up the middle. The shortstop dives for the ball and saves it from going into center field. Realizing he has no time to throw out the batter-runner at first base, the shortstop tosses the ball to the second baseman covering second base in an attempt to force out the runner coming from first. The throw is in time, and the runner going to second base is called out.

2. With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball back up the middle. The shortstop dives for the ball and saves it from going into center field. Realizing he has no time to throw out the batter-runner at first base, the shortstop tosses the ball to the second baseman covering second base in an attempt to force out the runner coming from first. However, the throw is not in time, and both runners are safe.


I believe in both situations here, the batter is credited with a hit.

[drustrk3]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

Yes I understand that... but how do you know the defensive team could have thrown the batter-baserunner out at first from what the initial poster posted? If they couldn't throw him out and their only option was to try a force play at third or second for instance, then batter is indeed credited with a base hit. Right?

Ok tell me how these should be scored...

1. With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball back up the middle. The shortstop dives for the ball and saves it from going into center field. Realizing he has no time to throw out the batter-runner at first base, the shortstop tosses the ball to the second baseman covering second base in an attempt to force out the runner coming from first. The throw is in time, and the runner going to second base is called out.

2. With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball back up the middle. The shortstop dives for the ball and saves it from going into center field. Realizing he has no time to throw out the batter-runner at first base, the shortstop tosses the ball to the second baseman covering second base in an attempt to force out the runner coming from first. However, the throw is not in time, and both runners are safe.


I believe in both situations here, the batter is credited with a hit.

1) 6-4 Fielders choice....Certainly not a hit. (It doesnt matter how the fielder gets the ball...if there is a force out there CANNOT be a hit.)
2) If its the judgement of the scorekeeper that the that the fielder had no play at first then it could be ruled a hit.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

1) 6-4 Fielders choice....Certainly not a hit. (It doesnt matter how the fielder gets the ball...if there is a force out there CANNOT be a hit.)
2) If its the judgement of the scorekeeper that the that the fielder had no play at first then it could be ruled a hit.

Exactly.

Anytime there is a force-out, the hitter can not receive a hit. It doesn't matter if the fielder makes the greatest play or the runner makes a stupid decision.

Here is another example of a FC:

1) Runner on first, batter hits a groundball to RF. The runner on first falls down or trips on his way to second and is thrown out by the Right Fielder. While this is normally a sure hit, in this scenario, it is a FC.

2) Runner on first and second. There is a slow dribbler to the pitcher. He gets the ball and fires to third only to have the runner beat the throw. If the scorer assumes that he would have had an out at first, he would rule this a FC. If it's Juan Pierre running and they determine that the pitcher had not shot at the hitter, then they can assign a hit.

An FC is basically any play where the batter runner was safe only due to the fielders decision to attempt a play at another base (doesn't have to be a fore out attempt)

3) Runner on second. Grounder to the pitcher. Pitcher catches the runner inbetween second and third and attempts to nail runner, but doesn't thow the ball in time allowing the runner to arrive safely. Hitter is still charged with a FC.

[jake44np]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

Yes I understand that... but how do you know the defensive team could have thrown the batter-baserunner out at first from what the initial poster posted? If they couldn't throw him out and their only option was to try a force play at third or second for instance, then batter is indeed credited with a base hit. Right?

Ok tell me how these should be scored...

1. With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball back up the middle. The shortstop dives for the ball and saves it from going into center field. Realizing he has no time to throw out the batter-runner at first base, the shortstop tosses the ball to the second baseman covering second base in an attempt to force out the runner coming from first. The throw is in time, and the runner going to second base is called out.

2. With a runner on first base, the batter hits a ground ball back up the middle. The shortstop dives for the ball and saves it from going into center field. Realizing he has no time to throw out the batter-runner at first base, the shortstop tosses the ball to the second baseman covering second base in an attempt to force out the runner coming from first. However, the throw is not in time, and both runners are safe.


I believe in both situations here, the batter is credited with a hit.

And you where questioning my knowledge of the rules.
Example 1 is a FC without a doubt for heavens sake there was an out made on the play. A batter is never credited with a hit when an actual FC out was made!!!! lol

[JT30]

Re: Another Scoring Bug

Yes I just realized that after I posted it. Scenario #1 is a FC.. however I dont think I agree with Trevy's scenario #1 in scoring it a FC.

BASE HITS
10.05
(d) When a batter reaches first base safely on a fair ball which has not been touched by a fielder and which is in fair territory when it reaches the outfield unless in the scorer’s judgment it could have been handled with ordinary effort;