Another Scoring Bug

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  • sbmnky
    #ITFDB
    • Mar 2003
    • 1206

    #16
    Re: Another Scoring Bug

    I always thought it would be fun to be an official scorer. It seems over the years, in MLB parks, official scorers have become 'homers.' Some badly played balls by the visiting team have gone as hits for the home team. We need more threads like this - 'You make the call'

    How much pressure would you feel if you had to rule on play during a no-no or perfect game!?

    Comment

    • Trevytrev11
      MVP
      • Nov 2006
      • 3259

      #17
      Re: Another Scoring Bug

      Originally posted by JT30
      Yes I just realized that after I posted it. Scenario #1 is a FC.. however I dont think I agree with Trevy's scenario #1 in scoring it a FC.
      It's the same thing if there is a ball that falls in between an infielder and an outfielder in shallow outfield (no-mans land) and the runner freezes or retreats assuming it will be caught.

      Comment

      • Trevytrev11
        MVP
        • Nov 2006
        • 3259

        #18
        Re: Another Scoring Bug

        Originally posted by JT30
        BASE HITS
        10.05
        (d) When a batter reaches first base safely on a fair ball which has not been touched by a fielder and which is in fair territory when it reaches the outfield unless in the scorer’s judgment it could have been handled with ordinary effort;
        Yeah they have to throw that second part in because a ground ball could theoretically roll through someones legs without them touching it or a flyball could fall right in front of a bad fielder (without problems from the sun).

        10.06
        A base hit shall not be scored in the following cases:
        (a) When a runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;
        (b) When the batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which he is advancing and is called out on appeal. Charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;
        (c) When the pitcher, the catcher or any infielder handles a batted ball and puts out a preceding runner who is attempting to advance one base or to return to his original base, or would have put out such runner with ordinary effort except for a fielding error. Charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;
        (d) When a fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner, and in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner could have been put out at first base.
        NOTE: This shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base;
        (e) When a runner is called out for interference with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball, unless in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner would have been safe had the interference not occurred.
        Last edited by Trevytrev11; 03-27-2007, 02:43 PM.

        Comment

        • JT30
          MVP
          • Jul 2004
          • 2123

          #19
          Re: Another Scoring Bug

          Originally posted by Trevytrev11
          It's the same thing if there is a ball that falls in between an infielder and an outfielder in shallow outfield (no-mans land) and the runner freezes or retreats assuming it will be caught.
          So that rule 10.05 (d) is not valid?

          Comment

          • jetsfansiny79
            Pro
            • Aug 2005
            • 663

            #20
            Re: Another Scoring Bug

            Only is they could get the Era and recording ground rule doubles as singles right I would be happy.
            Gametag JetsfanSINY79

            Comment

            • Trevytrev11
              MVP
              • Nov 2006
              • 3259

              #21
              Re: Another Scoring Bug

              Originally posted by JT30
              So that rule 10.05 (d) is not valid?
              Not with 10.06
              (a) When a runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;

              In my example, the runner was forced out at second. it doesn't matter if he was forced out by the pitcher, the thirdbaseman or the right fielder and the fact that he slipped doesn't matter either. A force out is a force out. It's just one of those rare cases where the hitter is punished for a baserunning blunder.

              Comment

              • JT30
                MVP
                • Jul 2004
                • 2123

                #22
                Re: Another Scoring Bug

                Originally posted by Trevytrev11
                Not with 10.06
                (a) When a runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;

                In my example, the runner was forced out at second. it doesn't matter if he was forced out by the pitcher, the thirdbaseman or the right fielder and the fact that he slipped doesn't matter either. A force out is a force out. It's just one of those rare cases where the hitter is punished for a baserunning blunder.
                But the baserunning blunder would only apply into a force out situation right?

                Comment

                • Trevytrev11
                  MVP
                  • Nov 2006
                  • 3259

                  #23
                  Re: Another Scoring Bug

                  Originally posted by JT30
                  But the baserunning blunder would only apply into a force out situation right?
                  I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

                  But say the runner is on second (no one on first) and there is a ball hit to left field. The left fielder fires to third and nails the runner (who slipped). This would be a base hit.

                  ***Now I'm assuming the batter gets to first before the runner is thrown out. I'm not sure what would happen if it happened before the runner reached first, but I assume it would go down as a FC....Official Scorer's decision, I guess. As this would be the same thing as a GB to the third baseman and him deciding to tag the runner instead of firing to first.

                  Comment

                  • JT30
                    MVP
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 2123

                    #24
                    Re: Another Scoring Bug

                    Yep that is exactly the scenario I was wondering about...if the batter never made it to first before the runner was tagged out at 3rd. For instance if the batter stumbled out of the box on a hit to right field and the RF threw the runner out going to 3rd base before the batter-runner made it to first.

                    Comment

                    • sbmnky
                      #ITFDB
                      • Mar 2003
                      • 1206

                      #25
                      Re: Another Scoring Bug

                      Someone was thrown out from LF last year because he slipped out of the batter's box. It went as 7-3 in the book.

                      Say you have runners on first and third with less than two outs. 3B is playing even with the bag. The ball is hit to the 3B. The runner on third is going on contact, so he immediately breaks for home on the batted ball. The ball is hit slowly and it's going to be a bang-bang play at home. The runner slides under the tag - because of the high throw - and is safe. The runner from 1st advances safely to 2nd and the batter is safe at first. Even though no outs were recorded and a run scored, it's still regarded as a FC. Right?

                      Comment

                      • JT30
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 2123

                        #26
                        Re: Another Scoring Bug

                        I would have to think that is considered a hit unless the score keeper thinks the 3B can make a play at 2B or 1B?

                        Comment

                        • Trevytrev11
                          MVP
                          • Nov 2006
                          • 3259

                          #27
                          Re: Another Scoring Bug

                          Yeah assuming it was a play where he could have easily made an out at first or second, it would go down as a FC....no doubt.

                          Now say, it's Ichiro hitting and instead of routine GB, he hits a high chopper or a slow roller where the 3B thinks that he has no play on the speedy Ichiro and fires home only to have the runner safe. This is where the Official Scorer makes his money and uses his best judgement to make the decision.

                          Comment

                          • Mjphillips
                            MVP
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 1153

                            #28
                            Re: Another Scoring Bug

                            Originally posted by JT30
                            I would have to think that is considered a hit unless the score keeper thinks the 3B can make a play at 2B or 1B?
                            Correct!
                            They call me "The Manual"

                            Comment

                            • JT30
                              MVP
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 2123

                              #29
                              Re: Another Scoring Bug

                              What if the guy running home on the slow Ichiro grounder was thrown out? Score keeper would have to decide if Ichiro would have beaten out a throw to first to score it as a hit or FC right?

                              Comment

                              • Keirik
                                MVP
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 3770

                                #30
                                Re: Another Scoring Bug

                                maybe im late to the party here but as i understand it, there are certain times when a base hit could be called if you attempt and fail to get a runner other than the batter in a force situation. Case and point.
                                Bases loaded, 1 out, batter swings and hits a dribbler down the 3rd base line that barely makes it half way up the line. The third baseman charges and instead of throwing to first because the batter has good speed, desperately flips to home for hte force but is too late....in that situation, i think it would be up to the official scorer as to whether or not to credit the batter with a hit. Same could be said if the batter had attempted to bunt for a bit. It could be a hit however and not automatically a fielder's choice.

                                The point is, from the original poster, it's never mentioned whether or not there was a realistic chance to get the runner at first, so how can we make ANY definitive judgement on the scoring of the play?
                                Yankees, Manchester United, Chicago Bears, New York Rangers

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