New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

[gamerk2]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

Madden released every year? Don't you mean "New Roster Update 200x" released every year? Madden better deliver this comming year...

I agree though, that with so little time to find out what needs to be fixed, and the fact you usually won't have the same programmers for more than 2-3 years, its hard to "fix" things without breaking something else. A 2-3 year cycle would be nice, but with the lack of competition in sports games now, its unlikely anyone will stay with the same game for that period of time.

[DrJones]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

This is a perfect example of the argument against releasing sports games every single year. Instead, why not try getting the game right and then having a 2 year development period and just releasing a cheaper roster update in the off year. I know this will never happen because of the business..but this answer is a perfect illustration for why it should from a quality stand point. I'm not speaking directly at 2k8 of course. In fact, EA is the biggest offender with this.

Well said. I've been pushing for this since forever.

Unfortunately, as KushGamer knows all too well, it's not the way this industry works. There's too good of a chance for it to be a money loser for EA, 2K, et al, and they're not going to take a chance like that.

[baa7]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

It seems like the higher-ups are mostly concerned about review scores. How did we rate overall compared to last year and how do we rate compared to The Show? But that's because those scores play a pretty decent role in sales and it also gives you a good idea of the general reception of the game. Also, most reveiwers tend not to be hardcore sim baseball fans.

Thanks for the honesty, really. But if that's true, that is sad. So they worry about review scores, knowing these games are being reviewed by people who quite probably aren't fans of sim baseball, or even baseball fans period.

That can be taken to mean they ensure their games will appeal to these same reviewers -- and therefore the readers of these reviewers -- knowing that if they do, they might get decent review scores. Wow. That certainly explains a lot about this series over the past four years -- since TT took over.

[sleepytercel]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

Thanks for the honesty, really. But if that's true, that is sad. So they worry about review scores, knowing these games are being reviewed by people who quite probably aren't fans of sim baseball, or even baseball fans period.

That can be taken to mean they ensure their games will appeal to these same reviewers -- and therefore the readers of these reviewers -- knowing that if they do, they might get decent review scores. Wow. That certainly explains a lot about this series over the past four years -- since TT took over.

I'm sure user reviews now have a standing on this as well. Also, developers do say that they check message boards as well. However, one clarification of this "higher up routine" and how it plays. Check out Hilary's review of NBA2K3 at IGN.

2K3 was a game that people almost felt was a near perfect simulation at the time. It had its issues, but the balance and simulation was quite good. Anyways, Hilary's review stated, "Why do we need all of these plays? Who uses these? They should just have 4 generic plays. One for iso, another for pick and roll, a screen play, and a post play". Guess what happened in 2K4? Also, NBA2K4 was VC's worst basketball game they released. I don't think Hilary's review was the sole reason, as the developers were trying to create a new system, and they ran out of time.

NBA2K8 kind of has the same issue, where the developers were aiming for new logic and mechanics, and it is obvious that they ran out of time. In fact, the whole postgame wrapup seems tacked on as if VC had a new replay system and presentation system on hand, but couldn't fit it in on time. For instance, the game will show auto replays of some collision animations, bit the announcers don't say anything, and the replays feel "glitched", as if they aren't to be shown. It's obviously incomplete. However, guess what 2K said their focus is next year? Unsurprisingly, it will be presentation. However, NBA2K8 is a fantastic game, and it is amazing how well the developers really changed the game, and still kept a good amount of polish in it.

[sleepytercel]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

Kush, it's amazing that you explained this "roll of the dice" system from 2K7. When I did my slider set, it became much more noticable. Anytime you do a replay, you would see the ball go thru the bat. Also, when replaying slow, you can see how the ball will jump randomly somewhere when it hits off the bat. There's a slight ball animation for half a second of it coming off the bat, and then there would be some jerkiness as the ball creates a new path afterwards. It had no true physics logic in the game, and it was obvious.

When people still complain about potential homerun issues, they fail to realize that there is no power swing (which I assume is another mechanic that must be programmed seperately for the ball to react accordingly), which simplifies the physics logic. Also, the amount of frames being increased by 4 to 5 times. Also, true ball to bat collision physics. These three things change EVERYTHING in comparison to 2K7. However, 2K7 was the first release where it felt that the developers actually had focus.

I typically described the Kush developers as "ADHD mad men" because it seemed that they wanted to fit 100 things into the game. 2K5 was pretty amazing in the fact that Kush did a good job in changing Blueshifts horrible presentation system. However, it was evident that 2K6 was just ideas jumping everywhere, and instead of having focus, it's like everyone really wanted to get every idea in the game. It looks good in the back of the box, but the results are abysmal.

I can't blame some people thinking this could be another case with 2K8, considering the amount of mechanical changes in the game. However, it's quite evident that a huge majority of focus went into the core gameplay, and I don't see this being much of a problem this year. It's just nice to feel a bit of stability here, especially since this series has been touched by so many different hands. It's hard enough to take over unfinished paperwork from another manager at a job and trying to complete it, so I can only imagine taking code over and trying to understand it.

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

Kush, it's amazing that you explained this "roll of the dice" system from 2K7. When I did my slider set, it became much more noticable. Anytime you do a replay, you would see the ball go thru the bat. Also, when replaying slow, you can see how the ball will jump randomly somewhere when it hits off the bat. There's a slight ball animation for half a second of it coming off the bat, and then there would be some jerkiness as the ball creates a new path afterwards. It had no true physics logic in the game, and it was obvious.

When people still complain about potential homerun issues, they fail to realize that there is no power swing (which I assume is another mechanic that must be programmed seperately for the ball to react accordingly), which simplifies the physics logic. Also, the amount of frames being increased by 4 to 5 times. Also, true ball to bat collision physics. These three things change EVERYTHING in comparison to 2K7. However, 2K7 was the first release where it felt that the developers actually had focus.

I typically described the Kush developers as "ADHD mad men" because it seemed that they wanted to fit 100 things into the game. 2K5 was pretty amazing in the fact that Kush did a good job in changing Blueshifts horrible presentation system. However, it was evident that 2K6 was just ideas jumping everywhere, and instead of having focus, it's like everyone really wanted to get every idea in the game. It looks good in the back of the box, but the results are abysmal.

I can't blame some people thinking this could be another case with 2K8, considering the amount of mechanical changes in the game. However, it's quite evident that a huge majority of focus went into the core gameplay, and I don't see this being much of a problem this year. It's just nice to feel a bit of stability here, especially since this series has been touched by so many different hands. It's hard enough to take over unfinished paperwork from another manager at a job and trying to complete it, so I can only imagine taking code over and trying to understand it.

Nominated for POST OF THE WEEK

[CMH]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

Yeah, and I was just talking about determining quality of contact. Don't get me started on the dice rolls that went into determining where the ball actually ended up. It was a mish mash of too many different programmers working on it over the years without a clear view of the big picture. It has a pretty clear , logical flow to it now, IMO, and is documented fairly well. Hopefully, someone will take the time to make sure they understand the system as a whole before diving into any one of its parts to improve it.

Maybe someone will look at the game and say, "hey, there arent enough HRs". OK, easy fix. I will bump up the maximum power. Yay, there's more HRs!!! Uh oh, QA is telling me they are hitting them 600 feet. Hmmm... well ok, I'll make sure the ball dies faster over time. Crap, now QA says there's no line drives. Oh, I guess maybe at first instead of raising the max power i should have lowered the contact quality required to hit the ball hard, but i didnt even realize there was something called contact quality, because I blindly dove in and increased the max power looking for the quick and easy fix instead of looking at the entire system.

That's kind of a dumbed down example of the type of thing that could happen, but I think you get the point. There's just so much pressure to get things done quickly that it is easy to get in the habit of "quick and easy".

This has me worried about 2k9, if 2k8's hitting system is as good as you say it is.

Maybe 2k9 will improve whatever little things you didn't like about the hitting. But, I fear that it's more likely someone will just mess it up. I don't want to see 2k8 become another 2k4 in terms of hitting. Then 2k5 comes out and every gamer just doesn't understand what happened.

Did you at least speak to Brinkman or whoever else might be in charge of this sort of thing about the hitting system that you created and how someone should dive into it once you're gone?

[davewins]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

Kush, it's amazing that you explained this "roll of the dice" system from 2K7. When I did my slider set, it became much more noticable. Anytime you do a replay, you would see the ball go thru the bat. Also, when replaying slow, you can see how the ball will jump randomly somewhere when it hits off the bat. There's a slight ball animation for half a second of it coming off the bat, and then there would be some jerkiness as the ball creates a new path afterwards. It had no true physics logic in the game, and it was obvious.

When people still complain about potential homerun issues, they fail to realize that there is no power swing (which I assume is another mechanic that must be programmed seperately for the ball to react accordingly), which simplifies the physics logic. Also, the amount of frames being increased by 4 to 5 times. Also, true ball to bat collision physics. These three things change EVERYTHING in comparison to 2K7. However, 2K7 was the first release where it felt that the developers actually had focus.

I typically described the Kush developers as "ADHD mad men" because it seemed that they wanted to fit 100 things into the game. 2K5 was pretty amazing in the fact that Kush did a good job in changing Blueshifts horrible presentation system. However, it was evident that 2K6 was just ideas jumping everywhere, and instead of having focus, it's like everyone really wanted to get every idea in the game. It looks good in the back of the box, but the results are abysmal.

I can't blame some people thinking this could be another case with 2K8, considering the amount of mechanical changes in the game. However, it's quite evident that a huge majority of focus went into the core gameplay, and I don't see this being much of a problem this year. It's just nice to feel a bit of stability here, especially since this series has been touched by so many different hands. It's hard enough to take over unfinished paperwork from another manager at a job and trying to complete it, so I can only imagine taking code over and trying to understand it.

We share the same thoughts. Gameplay is core and it is the foundation of any sports game in my opinion. These games aren't manage-only games. These games are sports simulation games. We need gameplay as accurate and realistic as possible without overdoing it so nobody can achieve these results and still make the game fun and accessible to everyone.

I think nailing down the core gameplay is great for 2k8 and then for 2k9 and beyond they could work on polishing the gameplay (gameplay is never perfect) and really work on presentation features.

[boomhauertjs]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

Not sure:
game pace is faster, felt last year was too slow.

I like the sound of this. I hate playing games that take almost an hour to finish.

[baa7]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

This is a perfect example of the argument against releasing sports games every single year. Instead, why not try getting the game right and then having a 2 year development period and just releasing a cheaper roster update in the off year. I know this will never happen because of the business...

Well, it happens in my house. I seldom buy these games each year. I'm still playing The Show 06 and Tiger Woods 06. I bought FIFA 06 and 08 -- skipped 07. ALL of this is entirely up to the consumer. It's YOU who chooses to purchase or not purchase. You don't see people complaining that Honda puts out new automobiles every year, or that Samsung puts out new HDTV's every six months.

[baa7]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

I like the sound of this. I hate playing games that take almost an hour to finish.

You must be Ben Brinkman!

[boomhauertjs]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

You must be Ben Brinkman!

No, but I am like him in that I don't take a lot of pitches.

Uh, I shouldn't be saying that in case I'm playing an OSer on XBL.

[baa7]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

Uh, I shouldn't be saying that in case I'm playing an OSer on XBL.

Too late...

Hey everybody: FREE SWINGER!

[redsox4ever]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

On one hand it's very easy to understand that they have to make a game for a much wider audience that is represented here, but on the other hand it's frustrating that they can't add options to the game to satisfy both sides. I know sliders are an option and will always help, but like last years game demonstrated, there are just certain things that can't be fixed.

I know this is a stretch, but it would be cool if when you first start up the game you were asked a series of questions to determine what kind of player you were. I think within a matter or 4 or 5 basic questions you could determine what kind of player you were playing with. Then based on your answers, the game would select a "personality" and move the sliders to cater to you. Then you could adjust what you wanted to from that point.

Maybe there are 5 personality types that range from True Arcade to Pure Sim

This could also help in online games as maybe when you log in, you are paired up with people who share similar "personalities." This would also prevent a lot of mismatched gamers getting frustrated that the other player is playing a completely different type of game.

Again a stretch, but I think it would be cool.

Yeah that would be a real good idea. It's just a shame they haven't come up with this idea yet.

[gobucks]

Re: New interview with Ben Brinkman on The Sports Anomaly.

Thanks! Listening now.

Edit: I like most of what I heard. But, there is one thing that bothers me. It's obvious that the focus of the game is geared toward a broader market. The sim junkies here may not be the target audience for 2K8. I think 2KLA tries to include features and game play elements that we would want, but they also have to make compromises so the game can appeal to a bigger market.

I can't blame them because this is a business. And when your company pays big bucks to have a license. The game better sell copies to justify the cost of said license. I think it's something we've seen in Madden. The more money involved in the making of sports video games the larger the target audience is going to get. And let's face it. I think OS only makes up about 1% (if that) of the buyers they are trying to target.

I disagree..there is no way they would have implemented the more complex pitching model they have...and eliminated power swings form the batting model if they were trying to attract an arcade audience.