Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

[NINJAK2]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

I honestly have never played the show 09 because i own a 360. I know everything there is to know about the game however and the game does seem impressive. However from the previews we have read about 2k9, would it be considered a miracle if it beats out the show?

They need to just worry about being better than 2k8 and being on par with 2k7 at this point.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

Judging from the comments in here, I would think that 2K's main selling point, controls, are what will keep them hanging around when all else fails. I personally think that people put far too much focus on the mechanic over the results. What good is a swing stick and R Stick Pitching control (in any form) if the function they control is bad?

Anyway, more on the subject, I think that little debate proves that if 2K can get it's act together as far as gameplay and stability, the it will already have it's supporters. To me, if 2K9 pulls of even their base set of goals, then it can be better than The Show...for some people.

For me, I don't see it happening in 2K9. I would almost go as far as to say it's a lock, but I don't like definitives without knowledge, so I'l leave it as "doubtful." The Show just gets too many of the little things right and has added so much depth to franchise, that I know I'll be hooked. Of course, if 2K9 is good enough, I'm not above getting both...lol.

I think that if 2K's innovative controls are polished and they nail the "real time" atmosphere, in a few years time (possibly less) it will, at the very least, be an interesting debate. As always, each game will have it's diehards, but it should be fun.

[myghty]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

I agree with GrandFather B...

[baa7]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

I agree that the swing stick mechanic is better than just pushing a button but the results it has make the hitting in 2k terrible to me. I would rather push a button and get realistic results than have the better control and get homerun after homerun with no hit variety.

Agreed. Which is why I mentioned I like The Show's hit results (hit variety is what I meant to say). I'm assuming and hoping 2K's hit variety will be improved this year, now that VC is working on the game and zone is included.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

Judging from the comments in here, I would think that 2K's main selling point, controls, are what will keep them hanging around when all else fails. I personally think that people put far too much focus on the mechanic over the results. What good is a swing stick and R Stick Pitching control (in any form) if the function they control is bad?

I agree, but it goes both ways. If a system is mindless, but produces good results, then the user feels like he has no input and stats and calculations just take over, which kind of takes the point out of interaction in video games. Most of the fun, at least for me, in video games is doing and not watching. I want to control the outcome of the pitch as much as possible, not watch the game take over. But at the same time, you don't want a system which is just too easy to master.

The perfect balance is a system that is difficult enough that realistic results just happen.

I've yet to see a system where I can't just pipe fastballs on the corner at will because the system is hard. It happens either because the game decides that it needs to be random to be statistically accurate or because I just get lazy.

It's like shooting free throws in a basketball game. Either you just let the %'s take over or you end up with a system where you can make them with Shaq like you can with Ray Allen.

I like the Zone 2 system in 2K7. Thought it was the most challenging system they have had to date.

[centauris]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

doubt it?

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

I agree, but it goes both ways. If a system is mindless, but produces good results, then the user feels like he has no input and stats and calculations just take over, which kind of takes the point out of interaction in video games.

Oh I agree. I'm not talking about sacrificing user control. The whole "button mashing" vs Stick control is about preference of control, not control itself. A good button zone or cursor system can offer just as much control over the hitting as using the stick in the same way.

The people who argue that using the stick is more realistic than using buttons are as stubbornly wrong as people who claim the stick is a gimmick. neither is "realistic" in terms of function. Neither even remotely comes close to actually swinging a bat.

The only realism comes from the functionality of whatever system and the associated results. The rest is just personal preference. If you feel you have more control using a button, then fine. If you feel you have more control using the stick, also fine.

[baa7]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

Neither even remotely comes close to actually swinging a bat.

2K8: pull back on the stick and the batter draws the bat back, lifts his front leg and readies himself to swing; push forward and the batter moves the bat forward thru the strikezone.

The Show: stand there until the pitch arrives then push the button to activate swing animation.

2K8 just won the "comes closer to actually swinging a bat" competition, and by a landslide. And wins the "emulates the real-life movement of a player swinging" competiton because The Show never even qualified for the finals.

[Frek21]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

2K8: pull back on the stick and the batter draws the bat back, lifts his front leg and readies himself to swing; push forward and the batter moves the bat forward thru the strikezone.

The Show: stand there until the pitch arrives then push the button to activate swing animation.

2K8 just won the "comes closer to actually swinging a bat" competition, and by a landslide. And wins the "emulates the real-life movement of a player swinging" competiton because The Show never even qualified for the finals.

This. When you play baseball you don't just wait until the ball gets there and swing. Most people load before the pitcher releases the ball and then swings.

[dorismary]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

NO the best they can do is build a strong foundation with good framerate and most will be happy with that in its first year.
I dont think most truly understand how good the SHOW is at creating The Real MLB

[baa7]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

This. When you play baseball you don't just wait until the ball gets there and swing. Most people load before the pitcher releases the ball and then swings.

An argument can be made that pulling and pushing on a little plastic stick isn't the same as swinging a bat in REAL LIFE. And I'd answer, "No ****, Sherlock!"

That said, 2K's swing stick in combination with step-influence is meant to simulate a player swinging a bat in a VIDEO GAME. And it does that brilliantly. On a scale of 1 to 10, 2K's system of simulating a player swinging a bat in a VIDEO GAME is close to 10. And on a scale of 1 to 10, The Show's system of simulating a player swinging a bat in a VIDEO GAME is... oh yeah, sorry, I forgot. They never showed up for the competition and were therefore disqualified.

[duke776]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

2K8: pull back on the stick and the batter draws the bat back, lifts his front leg and readies himself to swing; push forward and the batter moves the bat forward thru the strikezone.

The Show: stand there until the pitch arrives then push the button to activate swing animation.

2K8 just won the "comes closer to actually swinging a bat" competition, and by a landslide. And wins the "emulates the real-life movement of a player swinging" competiton because The Show never even qualified for the finals.

But who wins if the batter(in real life) just sits there and swings when the pitch comes, no step or anything.


I had a kid on my baseball team like this a couple years ago...lets just say he didn't hit too well.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

2K8: pull back on the stick and the batter draws the bat back, lifts his front leg and readies himself to swing; push forward and the batter moves the bat forward thru the strikezone.

The Show: stand there until the pitch arrives then push the button to activate swing animation.

2K8 just won the "comes closer to actually swinging a bat" competition, and by a landslide. And wins the "emulates the real-life movement of a player swinging" competiton because The Show never even qualified for the finals.

Ahh, segmented context...lol...gotta love it

Let's get this out of the way...it will make you happy. You're right! With the step influence it's more complete control. I never argued that point.

Now, moving on...lol...I was musing about (not based on any specific comment, just in general, I do that) of the "buttons vs Stick argument" not "Show vs 2K." It was just an aside from the "2K vs Show" comparison.

I just find amusement when someone calls a game more "realistic" when you're toying with a stick vs toying with buttons. You could actually simulate the same step control (though not the fluidity, I obviously grant that)by a context sensitive button system. That is my only point. It's not as simple as fans of either control focus like to make it. The application of the given mechanic is what matters.

It's apparently a "hot button" (pun partially intended) issue for fans of both sides. If you mention it's shortcomings here, people overreact and point to The show's archaic system (not saying you). And of course, as you know baa, if you mention the "dreaded stick" in the other forum, all hell breaks loose and the word "gimmick" is shouted from the roof tops...lol.

Now, As far as the "2K vs Show" is concerned, Trevytrev11 brought up a very good point about user control. With The Show, it's a common gripe that it takes control from the user too often. My gripe with that is more geared towards fielding, but that's a separate discussion. In any case, The Show puts more focus on making sure the game "looks and acts real" than giving the user max control...in fact, often times, at the expense of it.

2K started putting a focus on more user control at the sacrifice (to this point...not saying it was a design decision) of gameplay results and appearance. Strip away the stability and related issues and this was the one of the fundamental choices between the games, IMO.

As it stands now with hitting (meaning comparing the 2008 games), I would rather sacrifice the more precise timing control for better results. As it currently stands, The show offers more "bat" control and 2K offers more timing control.

Again, to be clear, I would agree (and I believe I've said this many, many times) that if 2K's new zone system functions properly...along with the step influence, of course...it's the most complete system out there...period. It would revolutionize the mechanic...and blow The Show's system out of the water.

If you notice, both games are trying to shore up it's problem areas for users. The Show is boasting more user control this year and 2K is boasting a cleaner game.

As I said earlier, all things being equal, it will come down to preference (or playing both).

[Skyboxer]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

It doesn't have to be better than The Show and The Show doesn't have to be better than 2K. All that matters is they both keep improving and we always have a choice. I'll get them both so for me... I don't care which is better.
They each have a place and a specific area they will shine in.

[Qb]

Re: Does anyone think 2k9 is going to be better than the show this year?

To be perfectly honest, as soon as I saw this thread title, I was scared as to what I would find in here. But everyone has handled themselves rather well. Nice to be pleasantly surprised once in a while...

I have never played The Show. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever been in the same room as a running PS3 (aside from Best Buy, etc). But from what I've read on these boards, it seems that what that game excels at is capturing the nuances of baseball, arguably the most 'nuanced' of sports.

It is unrealistic to expect the 2K series to be at that level of detail when they are trying to get fundamentals in place and correct problems that plagued past releases. But it is quite possible that VC can put out a solid, improved title with strong points -- controls, sig style, visuals/presentation could all fall in this category. But the series won't be great or "the best" until they capture all those little gameplay things that make baseball what it is -- smart contextual baserunning, good bullpen/bench management, etc -- as well as the features sports gamers expect like a deep franchise mode, logical AI team management and smooth online play.

I'm approaching the game with an open mind, knowing that it's a new dev team and keeping my expectations tempered. I'll probably buy it since I really like baseball and have a 360, but I won't be expecting 'The Show 2K9'...