Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

[brendanrfoley]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

I don't know what you're going to school for, but I hope you've considered sports game design. You've been a terrific presence on this board for a long time.

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

I don't know what you're going to school for, but I hope you've considered sports game design. You've been a terrific presence on this board for a long time.

Thanks, man. I'm majoring in computer science, so hopefully I go down that road someday. The problem is, with all of these ideas that I have, I have absolutely no idea how they would be programmed or if they can be. I just come up with the ideas... I have guys that do the rest.

[brendanrfoley]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Ah, perfectly suited to be a developer or producer. Generate ideas and order your minions to carry them out.

[DickDalewood]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Nice job Blzer, I like the idea.

[DaveDQ]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Are those posters 3 0r 4 inches apart?

I like your points about defensive swings. One thing the Kotaku preview mentioned was that the stick was very sensitive. I think that is going to be key in all of this and how natural the reaction is in the stick.

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Are those posters 3 0r 4 inches apart?

LOL yeah, you would have to see my whole room, it's filled with posters and baseball pennants. It looks like a bachelor pad.

I like your points about defensive swings. One thing the Kotaku preview mentioned was that the stick was very sensitive. I think that is going to be key in all of this and how natural the reaction is in the stick.

The Kotaku preview helps relax me a little bit about the defensive swing, only because you can use it as an alternative to contact swinging (which they thankfully called "standard" swinging, but you don't load so that kind of sucks). But it still sounds like you can't for power swinging, and I feel like a "power swing" is more of a "home run swing" in some regards. I also like how influential hitting is a bit more how I hoped that it would be.

No mention of a check swing in the preview though, so I wonder how much it will be missed.

[Juiceman612]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Blzer, I'm a bit confused. The Kotaku preview mentions this, "There's no drawing back to ready for a pitch on a standard swing (although there is for the power swing.) That will throw your timing at first, but removing that step is key to preserving bat speed while processing what's been thrown for an extra fraction of a second. A third, new swing - the defensive swing - is engaged by flicking the stick right or left. "

So, that said are you correct when you explain contact swinging pulling back and then letting go? Seems to me if there is no drawing back, then you would just push forward to swing. If that's the case then defensive swinging by flicking right or left would make more sense. I also think if you're swinging for power you shouldn't have a defensive swing...risk/reward is needed or power swing would be too influential and for lack of a better word "powerful" in determing a game. You could just constantly wear down pitchers if you power swing and have the option to defensive swing and keep battling.

edit: I guess I picture Ryan Howard at bat and swinging for power like he often does; he can't adjust and fight a pitch off easily. He misses the ball completely. You get up and have blasting the ball in your head - it's going to be very hard to fight a pitch off. I'm in football mode today (Vikes fan) so that's my excuse today as I can't think of any power hitters who really are good at fighting off pitches AND still hitting with power. I think Helton was used as an example a few days ago. But with 2 strikes Helton isn't swinging for power (most likely).

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Blzer, I'm a bit confused. The Kotaku preview mentions this, "There's no drawing back to ready for a pitch on a standard swing (although there is for the power swing.) That will throw your timing at first, but removing that step is key to preserving bat speed while processing what's been thrown for an extra fraction of a second. A third, new swing - the defensive swing - is engaged by flicking the stick right or left. "

So, that said are you correct when you explain contact swinging pulling back and then letting go? Seems to me if there is no drawing back, then you would just push forward to swing. If that's the case then defensive swinging by flicking right or left would make more sense. I also think if you're swinging for power you shouldn't have a defensive swing...risk/reward is needed or power swing would be too influential and for lack of a better word "powerful" in determing a game. You could just constantly wear down pitchers if you power swing and have the option to defensive swing and keep battling.

edit: I guess I picture Ryan Howard at bat and swinging for power like he often does; he can't adjust and fight a pitch off easily. He misses the ball completely. You get up and have blasting the ball in your head - it's going to be very hard to fight a pitch off. I'm in football mode today (Vikes fan) so that's my excuse today as I can't think of any power hitters who really are good at fighting off pitches AND still hitting with power. I think Helton was used as an example a few days ago. But with 2 strikes Helton isn't swinging for power (most likely).

2K10 will have the contact swing by flicking upward, no drawing back.

And if there were any such videos around, I can show you plenty of power hitters (namely Howard and Ortiz) that end up letting up completely on their swing just to fight off a curve or slider that goes right above their shoe-tops. The risk/reward shouldn't be that you can't use a defensive swing, but maybe it would be an inferior defensive swing.

But believe me, power hitters that jack up definitely have a defensive swing. Like I said in my control scheme though, I would much prefer seeing only one kind of swinging style (and maybe have a 90% - 100% pressure sensitive flick-up stick like I explained) and the further away you fling up from center gesture-wise, the weaker the swing is, though the more you are aiming that way with your swing. So it is more of a pull swing if you go toward the right with a lefty, but curving it up the right side would be a defensive swing, etc.

It was easier to explain in my video but I tried to do it as quickly as possible. If I had a half-hour, you would have no problems understanding my control scheme.

[Juiceman612]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

2K10 will have the contact swing by flicking upward, no drawing back.

And if there were any such videos around, I can show you plenty of power hitters (namely Howard and Ortiz) that end up letting up completely on their swing just to fight off a curve or slider that goes right above their shoe-tops. The risk/reward shouldn't be that you can't use a defensive swing, but maybe it would be an inferior defensive swing.

But believe me, power hitters that jack up definitely have a defensive swing. Like I said in my control scheme though, I would much prefer seeing only one kind of swinging style (and maybe have a 90% - 100% pressure sensitive flick-up stick like I explained) and the further away you fling up from center gesture-wise, the weaker the swing is, though the more you are aiming that way with your swing. So it is more of a pull swing if you go toward the right with a lefty, but curving it up the right side would be a defensive swing, etc.

It was easier to explain in my video but I tried to do it as quickly as possible. If I had a half-hour, you would have no problems understanding my control scheme.

I actually didn't have a problem understanding your control scheme - it was just the part about loading a contact. Anyway, we're on the same page there. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the power hitting. If Howard or insert any power hitter fights a ball off it's one of two things: they're not swinging for power or they're trying to make contact on their power swing. In the second case you just swing and try to make contact. There is a reason Howard strikes out so much. Power swing and trying to make contact does not equal a defensive swing in my eyes. A defensive swing is a last minute adjustment to make contact which power hitters just don't do well aside from A-Rod maybe. I'm definitely not the best at explaining this - but I like that you can't defensive swing with a power swing decision.

edit: I'll try to write with less haste and more clarity

Power swing: decision is made upon the count and the pitcher's motion - if you expect a fastball and get a curve, you strike out nearly 200 times like Howard did last year.

Contact swing: decision is made at any point but you can't go from a power swing decision to contact. (Therefore, no defensive swing with Power Swing)

Defensive swing: decision is made when you actually see the pitch type and location. If you're in a power swing you continue your power swing and try to make contact if you misjudged the pitch...you don't have time to readjust enough to swing defensively. That is different in my eyes than batting for contact and upon registering the pitch misjudging the pitch and realizing you have to fight it off.

Hopefully that makes at least a little more sense.

[Blzer]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Well the two reasons I don't like it is: 1) I do believe power hitters make a defensive adjustment (again, I'll have to provide the video to show you what I mean); 2) I would prefer changing sliders to make my power swing the standard swing anyway (because I like the load), so I would like to have that defensive swing option.

[Tomba]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Very cool vid Blzer

Well...not cool in the sense that it has to be like that but you know what i mean...

[Fatalah]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Your control scheme is how my fingers have been trying to play this game since 2K6. Three cheers for the OP!

I don't know how 2Ksports hasn't figured this out yet.

[SBartlett]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Hey blzer, great video and conversation on this. I have been playing MLB The Bigs 2 lately and the swing styles you propose are somehwhat present in The Bigs 2. You can dl the demo online and test it out.

There is a power swing, and a contact swing, and they go as far as having ratings in each catg. The left joy stick actually aims your hits by adjusting your swing. For example, aiming up on the left stick results in upper cut swings, and the swings are completely influenced in this manner. The result is more fly balls, but not always - you can get your occasional weak ground ball by missing the ball and hitting the top of it with an upper cut swing and weakly grounding out.

I think I will review this a bit more along with your videos and write an article on this to go on the OS homepage. I was already reviewing old swing styles in n64 Griffey that I feel make perfect sense from a baseball batter-pitcher interface point of view.

[Alai]

Re: Swing stick control scheme revised (video)

Very nice vids. Very articulate young man.

By the way, if you haven't yet, try the MVP NCAA version of swing stick(the first one implemented, before 2K did), and they did it pretty much perfectly. Their way just made so much sense it didn't even really need explanation. I'm not saying they were perfect, but close. It felt much tighter and felt like hitting a baseball, but then 2K came out with their own version which was so sluggish and odd, didn't even really make sense.