MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

[jeffy777]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

I do not think however if you had to put 2k into a category "simulation" would be it. At least last year's. For my definition of "sim," it has to do with gameplay, trade AI , simulation engine, progression, etc...

None of which anyone has seen in action. I reserve judgement on the "simness" of 2k11. I refer to how hard people tried and tried to get 2k10 to be sim as an indication many gamers didn't think it was last year.

I'm not sure how much time you put in to 2K10, but I played 6 seasons of My Player, and the results were pretty sim, especially the hitting. For me, it had the best hitter vs. pitcher battles that I've seen in a baseball game (and I've played them all)....and the AI pitching was quite realistic (if you turn the pitch speed up). The fielding in My Player was pretty good too because it didnt have the assist that regular modes did. The simulation engine wasn't too bad either, though not perfect. But overall, I certainly get a decent sim experience from 2K10, and with changes I've seen in 2K11, it's looking and feeling like it will be even more sim this year.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

Not the deepest roundtable IMO...I didn't feel like anything was added to the discussions that have already taken place in the demo impressions (and honestly, I felt this lacked some of the detail some guys provided there as well).

That said, I don't know that there is one specific thing you can point to that makes 2K11 feel better than 2K10, so maybe that's part of it. What I mean is, that the improvements in each area aren't overwhelming on their own, but FINALLY when I play the demo, the sum of it's parts seem to add up to baseball a lot more accurately than previous years (albeit based on a small and incomplete sample). For me at least, that's about as good a sign as any that VC has gotten things turned around (or at the very least, are well on their way) as previous games felt less cohesive.

As for the whom 2K caters too thing, I can kind of see how one would think the way it was brought up in the article, though I disagree with the conclusion. The "casual game" comment about 2K is nothing new and the game has more of a "loose" feel to it than it's competition. I don't think "hardcore baseball" vs "casual baseball" is the disconnect though. I thinks it's more in line with the type of experience you're looking for from a video game and how each game approaches drawing people in.

I think as a video game, 2K plays at a faster, more action-oriented clip. I hesitate to label it "arcade" because it's not an over-the-top caricature of the sport like an NBA Jam or The Bigs. It has not to this point, however, been presented as a strong sim, but more a "pick up and play" experience. Now, that's not to say it can't be a good simulation experience, and I feel with many of the fixes for 2K11, we might see just that (and even in 2K10, with some tweaking, you could get a solid base going). It has certainly made a steady move back in that direction over the last few years.

2K baseball engages you through it's control scheme in a way that can draw you in on it's own merits. It plays more like a video game first, baseball second. Again, that's not to say it can't or doesn't represent the sport (and it's also not to say that certain baseball aspects like stat tracking or scouting, for example, aren't better represented)...just that it's appeal isn't primarily how the sport is represented, but how you, as a gamer/baseball fan, interact with it.

The gripe people usually have with The Show is that it plays at a slower, more deliberate pace. It tries to get your attention as a baseball fan first and not so much by how you interact with it. A lot of it's features are designed to immerse you in the details and nuance of the sport rather than create excitement through a secondary experience or via control scheme. It's kind of like it's operating under the premise of the sport being the draw, when 2K/VC's focus appears to be trying to draw the user to the sport. One could fairly argue a good case for either approach (innovation vs consistency; control vs derivation, etc), but that's kind of the point-it's not really about one being better suited to "hardcore" baseball fans than the other as that's 100% subjective. It's more about the differences in how the games each attempt to draw in their respective fans.

[thundergatti]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

I said last year that 2k was a casual game. I think it's a mindshift over time from 2k7-2k9 where they were just obviously not sim in nearly any respect. Last year was a well-done game, that I think a casual fan , or someone who is looking for a new take on baseball gaming enjoyed.

I personally am not making the claim that this year's offering is less sim. I didn't see that claim made. It is more sim than last year. Everyone wants to tell the difference between players, hardcore OR casual.

I do not think however if you had to put 2k into a category "simulation" would be it. At least last year's. For my definition of "sim," it has to do with gameplay, trade AI , simulation engine, progression, etc...

None of which anyone has seen in action. I reserve judgement on the "simness" of 2k11. I refer to how hard people tried and tried to get 2k10 to be sim as an indication many gamers didn't think it was last year.

I'm beginning to think that, just like politics, the voices at the extremes have commandeered and have come to dominate the discussion.

There are partisans on both sides, professing their cause is more "sim." In my opinion, however, as long as both games have ball "physics" that regularly lead to outside fastballs being pulled for HRs, or inside pitches blasted and skied for opposite field HRs, "more sim" is basically a self-appointed title without any real substance.

[jeffy777]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

Not the deepest roundtable IMO...I didn't feel like anything was added to the discussions that have already taken place in the demo impressions (and honestly, I felt this lacked some of the detail some guys provided there as well).

That said, I don't know that there is one specific thing you can point to that makes 2K11 feel better than 2K10, so maybe that's part of it. What I mean is, that the improvements in each area aren't overwhelming on their own, but FINALLY when I play the demo, the sum of it's parts seem to add up to baseball a lot more accurately than previous years (albeit based on a small and incomplete sample). For me at least, that's about as good a sign as any that VC has gotten things turned around (or at the very least, are well on their way) as previous games felt less cohesive.

As for the whom 2K caters too thing, I can kind of see how one would think the way it was brought up in the article, though I disagree with the conclusion. The "casual game" comment about 2K is nothing new and the game has more of a "loose" feel to it than it's competition. I don't think "hardcore baseball" vs "casual baseball" is the disconnect though. I thinks it's more in line with the type of experience you're looking for from a video game and how each game approaches drawing people in.

I think as a video game, 2K plays at a faster, more action-oriented clip. I hesitate to label it "arcade" because it's not an over-the-top caricature of the sport like an NBA Jam or The Bigs. It has not to this point, however, been presented as a strong sim, but more a "pick up and play" experience. Now, that's not to say it can't be a good simulation experience, and I feel with many of the fixes for 2K11, we might see just that (and even in 2K10, with some tweaking, you could get a solid base going). It has certainly made a steady move back in that direction over the last few years.

2K baseball engages you through it's control scheme in a way that can draw you in on it's own merits. It plays more like a video game first, baseball second. Again, that's not to say it can't or doesn't represent the sport (and it's also not to say that certain baseball aspects like stat tracking or scouting, for example, aren't better represented)...just that it's appeal isn't primarily how the sport is represented, but how you, as a gamer/baseball fan, interact with it.

The gripe people usually have with The Show is that it plays at a slower, more deliberate pace. It tries to get your attention as a baseball fan first and not so much by how you interact with it. A lot of it's features are designed to immerse you in the details and nuance of the sport rather than create excitement through a secondary experience or via control scheme. It's kind of like it's operating under the premise of the sport being the draw, when 2K/VC's focus appears to be trying to draw the user to the sport. One could fairly argue a good case for either approach (innovation vs consistency; control vs derivation, etc), but that's kind of the point-it's not really about one being better suited to "hardcore" baseball fans than the other as that's 100% subjective. It's more about the differences in how the games each attempt to draw in their respective fans.

Good post man.

[walhalla]

Okay dear reviewers, how much did they (2K sports) pay you? To be honest, this game IS BAD!

[rheth]

MVP Baseball 2005 is still the game I judge all other baseball games by. I have been playing the show since The Show 07 on PS3 as there was really no other option. I have liked The Show and its progression but last year it started to get stale. I decided to try MLB 2k10, and although it had many flaws, i really enjoyed the game. The pitching interface is challenging and I acutally looked forward to pitching rather than it being just something to get through before I could hit again. Loved the camera angle for batting and the hitters eye was along the lines of MVP 05( no colors of course). I have downloaded both demos and I really prefer MLB 2k11. There is no doubt The Show looks better, but I prefer the gameplay of MLB 2k11 and I will live with the graphics. Here's to hoping 2k continues to improve their baseball game going forward or give up the exclusive license and let EA have a crack again.

[elimack]

I can't believe people are actually defending 2k. This is a company that hasn't put out a quality baseball game since 2007. They then released 2k8 without even bothering to finish it. It seems each year 2k just changes the number on the box, from 2k8 to 2k9 to2k10. That's the biggest change from year to year. I feel 2k has simply coasted the last few years, putting almost zero effort or money into their product. I really feel like they're ripping their customers off, and that's not right. I'm not bashing 2k fans, I was a 2k fan, until 2k8. Idk, if some people enjoy the game, that's great. I just feel that 2k has been very deceptive and disingenuous. I a. A fan of the show now, but believe me, I would love nothing more than some serious competition. I would love to have to decide between two great games every year, but I don't see that happening anytime soon

I see where 2K has missed the marks in their games. Graphically/Animation wise, however to ignore their efforts to enhance the on field experience of the player from a game play perspective isn't right. They had no reason to implement analog controls or the new camera perspectives if this was the case.

We ignore the fact The Show has given us the exact same animations and in game commentary since it's last gen versions. They've taken more of the Madden NFL approach, when compared to 2K IMO.

[ryan36]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

I think its pretty interesting the thought that if you play the 2k series that you're not as hardcore, diehard baseball fan as those who play the Show. I'd be troubled to find a more ridiculous thought process.

Not true. If you play only on a 360, you play 2k. If you enjoy a game that doesn't take FOREVER to finish, you play 2k (I fast forward to the 5th inning in the show). The logic as you present it is flawed... my point is not that hardcore gamers don't play 2k, or that they would not choose 2k over the Show. My point was that 2k does not seem to be presenting their game in such a fashion as to appeal to the "intellectual" side of gamers. I enjoyed 2k10 this year. With both games, I'm waiting for impressions to decide on what I buy, if either. Money is tighter, and neither has made HUGE strides.

I'm not sure how much time you put in to 2K10, but I played 6 seasons of My Player, and the results were pretty sim, especially the hitting. For me, it had the best hitter vs. pitcher battles that I've seen in a baseball game (and I've played them all)....and the AI pitching was quite realistic (if you turn the pitch speed up). The fielding in My Player was pretty good too because it didnt have the assist that regular modes did. The simulation engine wasn't too bad either, though not perfect. But overall, I certainly get a decent sim experience from 2K10, and with changes I've seen in 2K11, it's looking and feeling like it will be even more sim this year.

I'm a franchise guy. That's where I spend most of my time. The game with sliders PLAYED somewhat sim, but to say the entirety of the game was an accurate sim, was a stretch, IMO. I say this about The Show as well.

I'm beginning to think that, just like politics, the voices at the extremes have commandeered and have come to dominate the discussion.

There are partisans on both sides, professing their cause is more "sim." In my opinion, however, as long as both games have ball "physics" that regularly lead to outside fastballs being pulled for HRs, or inside pitches blasted and skied for opposite field HRs, "more sim" is basically a self-appointed title without any real substance.

Sim is just "how close to results kinda sorta mimic real life" I'm a gamer who likes things "sim enough." Madden, for instance, to me, is almost "sim enough." I don't want a video game to take 2:15 min to complete although that's sim. I want to basically feel like the players have an identity on the field, and for the game to be free from glitches.

MVP Baseball 2005 is still the game I judge all other baseball games by. I have been playing the show since The Show 07 on PS3 as there was really no other option. I have liked The Show and its progression but last year it started to get stale. I decided to try MLB 2k10, and although it had many flaws, i really enjoyed the game. The pitching interface is challenging and I acutally looked forward to pitching rather than it being just something to get through before I could hit again. Loved the camera angle for batting and the hitters eye was along the lines of MVP 05( no colors of course). I have downloaded both demos and I really prefer MLB 2k11. There is no doubt The Show looks better, but I prefer the gameplay of MLB 2k11 and I will live with the graphics. Here's to hoping 2k continues to improve their baseball game going forward or give up the exclusive license and let EA have a crack again.

I think MVP hit that point between "arcade/sim" that was fun for most gamers. Even though if you held 'up' with Shea Hillenbrand and waited for high pitch almost every at bat, the game was fun...the presentation was good, etc.

I feel like 2k is moving closer to MVP as opposed to say ASB. Finding the point on the spectrum between sim and arcade or casual etc...is going to be the key to success in a sports world where titles are dwindling

[elimack]

Yeah, you're not biased, are you? That is the most ridiculous comment I've seen here.

This statement is very true. Aside from visual graphics and an additional feature here and there. The game is the same. From the cut scenes to the animations. In fact their still using the same generic baseball stances for players, instead of giving everyone sig styles

[Ltrain44]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

All I have to say is "it's a demo from an EARLIER build". I find it funny that some people do not take this into account. It's so entertaining watching folks talk **** about the game when it's a 3 inning skin and bones demo. lol

[ryan36]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

It's a no -win for the development team.

Release a 60 day old version of the game and hope people like it, or just hope people like it after full release.

I think with the incredible lack of info 2k has released, that people wanted more from the demo.

I think their marketing approach this year will mean a lot less Day 1 sales.

[CubFan23]

The Show was a great game...in 2006, it's the same game since, until they decided to copy 2K this year with analog controls. Bottom line is The Show sort of admitted 2K was ahead of them when it comes to gameplay.

But it's ok for 2k to copy RTTS and call it my player?

[BlackBetty15]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

It's a no -win for the development team.

Release a 60 day old version of the game and hope people like it, or just hope people like it after full release.

I think with the incredible lack of info 2k has released, that people wanted more from the demo.

I think their marketing approach this year will mean a lot less Day 1 sales.

I completley agree with this post. 2K is and has been the worst in marketing, community interactment, and in overall decison making concerning thier baseball franchise. I mean, sean bailey and his staff really needs to read a john maxwell book. Either that or hire Lane Kiffin, at least he brings the bark, unfortunatley he lacks the bite. Anything is better than what is currentley there. ESPECIALLY ronnie...that kid has no idea how to interact with fans or represent a product. Ramone Russell....if your reading this, throw ronnie a life raft QUICK....that dude is drowning for real.

[BearClaw]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

But it's ok for 2k to copy RTTS and call it my player?

But it's okay for SCEA to copy Madden NFL Superstar and call it Road to the Show?

[jeffy777]

Re: MLB 2K11 Demo Impressions Roundtable

I'm a franchise guy. That's where I spend most of my time. The game with sliders PLAYED somewhat sim, but to say the entirety of the game was an accurate sim, was a stretch, IMO. I say this about The Show as well.

I'm not saying the entirety of 2K10 was an accurate sim. I'm saying a good portion of the gameplay was, specifically the parts I mentioned (hitting, AI pitching, plate battles, My Player fielding). The things that were lacking were the user pitching (too accurate), regular fielding (too automatic and no errors), and stealing (too random). All of those things have been addressed this year, plus the physics and hit variety has been improved, as well as more sliders have been added to give it even greater flexibility. Based on what I've experienced with the demo, and after setting the demo difficulty to "Hard" (with the 360 profile trick), 2K11 should play a pretty good game of sim baseball. I'm not saying "Hard" is the perfect setting, but it shows that fielding assist can be turned off, pitching can become a lot harder (which means the pitching accuracy slider should be quite effective), as well as hitting, if you need more of a challenge. Personally, I thought hitting and stealing were the two things that were too tricky on the "Hard" setting, so it seems with the right difficulty setting, (with some possible slider tweaks catered to each person's skill level), the game should play a nice game of baseball.

Now other than on-the-field gameplay, the heavier franchise stuff remains to be seen, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed there. So far, the dynamic player ratings, deeper hot/cold system, and reoccuring injury system all sound pretty nice in theory. Now we'll just have to see how well it all works with the supposedly updated progression system and simulation engine.