Something about the screenshots

[Pared]

Re: Something about the screenshots

I agree. When I read ComforatblyLomb's post I got the same exact interpretation.

I think people just need to relax a little and realize 99% of what's posted on here is just one's opinion. Whether they phrase that differently than your or I would is a different story, however, it's still just an opinion.

No, I think YOU need to relax about commenting about people relaxing!

:y4:

[Pared]

Re: Something about the screenshots

I agree. When I read ComforatblyLomb's post I got the same exact interpretation.

I think people just need to relax a little and realize 99% of what's posted on here is just one's opinion. Whether they phrase that differently than your or I would is a different story, however, it's still just an opinion.

No, I think YOU need to relax about commenting about people relaxing!

:y4:

[mjb2124]

Re: Something about the screenshots

No, I think YOU need to relax about commenting about people relaxing!

:y4:

I guess I'm getting tired of seeing post after post of people bashing others opinions. Afterall, how old are we? An opinion is just that - an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. So people need to relax and stop jumping down others throats.

It gets tiresome and the games haven't even been released yet. I just wish we'd stick to discussing the games without the typical bashing.

PS - Thanks for bashing my opinion!

[mjb2124]

Re: Something about the screenshots

No, I think YOU need to relax about commenting about people relaxing!

:y4:

I guess I'm getting tired of seeing post after post of people bashing others opinions. Afterall, how old are we? An opinion is just that - an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. So people need to relax and stop jumping down others throats.

It gets tiresome and the games haven't even been released yet. I just wish we'd stick to discussing the games without the typical bashing.

PS - Thanks for bashing my opinion!

[Keirik]

Re: Something about the screenshots

i'm fairly new to this forum but i think half of the tension that goes around is two fold. The first is the fact that we all are anticipating the upcoming games and get a little ansy to say the least.
The second problem, and this by no means is meant to bash anyone's opinion at all so please don't take it that way, but i think it starts to get on people's nerves at times when we are all begging for a realistic game, and then there's those threads that come along saying "OMFG, this game sucks because the player's socks don't look even close to the way they should" or "this is absolute BS and a huge game killer, the guy sitting in section 104, row J, seat 4 on teh third base side of Yankee stadium doesn't look anything close to the real guy who has season tickets for that seat!!!!!!!!!!!!"...

As i said, it's not meant to be a bash at anyone's opinion because we all have different tastes and expectations. Also, it doesn't mean that the person who needs eye candy has anymore or any less of a right to feel the way they do. Heck, everyone has a different opinion of what's necessary to feel completely immersed in the game. The problem is, so many people are threatened by a differing opinion that it's just scary how easilly peopel get offended these days, or feel the need to call someone out over silly things.
Anyway, sorry for the long rant.

[Keirik]

Re: Something about the screenshots

i'm fairly new to this forum but i think half of the tension that goes around is two fold. The first is the fact that we all are anticipating the upcoming games and get a little ansy to say the least.
The second problem, and this by no means is meant to bash anyone's opinion at all so please don't take it that way, but i think it starts to get on people's nerves at times when we are all begging for a realistic game, and then there's those threads that come along saying "OMFG, this game sucks because the player's socks don't look even close to the way they should" or "this is absolute BS and a huge game killer, the guy sitting in section 104, row J, seat 4 on teh third base side of Yankee stadium doesn't look anything close to the real guy who has season tickets for that seat!!!!!!!!!!!!"...

As i said, it's not meant to be a bash at anyone's opinion because we all have different tastes and expectations. Also, it doesn't mean that the person who needs eye candy has anymore or any less of a right to feel the way they do. Heck, everyone has a different opinion of what's necessary to feel completely immersed in the game. The problem is, so many people are threatened by a differing opinion that it's just scary how easilly peopel get offended these days, or feel the need to call someone out over silly things.
Anyway, sorry for the long rant.

[brudjazz]

Re: Something about the screenshots

This thread was intended for the path that it took. The content dictated a discussion about why cutout crowds are more than acceptable.

Then you didn't read the beginning of the thread. Apparently you were off preparing your counter-post. I basically stated that the cutout crowds are NOT acceptable. Argument to that is fine, we all have opinions. The intent of the thread, however, was NOT as you're suggesting.

I may have to wait-and-see on baseball games this year. Each year I buy at least one, if not two, baseball games. Problem is, the same ol' silly mistake/omissions (of things that are easily fixable and are of great importance to creating authenticism) continue to exist.

When the game makers start listening to ME by making these games look and act realistic, then I'll start talking to them with my wallet.

[brudjazz]

Re: Something about the screenshots

This thread was intended for the path that it took. The content dictated a discussion about why cutout crowds are more than acceptable.

Then you didn't read the beginning of the thread. Apparently you were off preparing your counter-post. I basically stated that the cutout crowds are NOT acceptable. Argument to that is fine, we all have opinions. The intent of the thread, however, was NOT as you're suggesting.

I may have to wait-and-see on baseball games this year. Each year I buy at least one, if not two, baseball games. Problem is, the same ol' silly mistake/omissions (of things that are easily fixable and are of great importance to creating authenticism) continue to exist.

When the game makers start listening to ME by making these games look and act realistic, then I'll start talking to them with my wallet.

[Keirik]

Re: Something about the screenshots

Then you didn't read the beginning of the thread. Apparently you were off preparing your counter-post. I basically stated that the cutout crowds are NOT acceptable. Argument to that is fine, we all have opinions. The intent of the thread, however, was NOT as you're suggesting.

I may have to wait-and-see on baseball games this year. Each year I buy at least one, if not two, baseball games. Problem is, the same ol' silly mistake/omissions (of things that are easily fixable and are of great importance to creating authenticism) continue to exist.

When the game makers start listening to ME by making these games look and act realistic, then I'll start talking to them with my wallet.

well, i hate to tell ya though, but saying that cutout crowds are necessary in order to have a realistic authentic baseball game is an opinion that is on the extreme side of the minority. I doubt there are too many people out there thinking "well, the game plays great, but since it has a cutout crowd, it's hardly worth my money" kind of thing.

But of course, you have the right to your opinion and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Hopefully you'll find the baseball game you're looking for soon.

[Keirik]

Re: Something about the screenshots

Then you didn't read the beginning of the thread. Apparently you were off preparing your counter-post. I basically stated that the cutout crowds are NOT acceptable. Argument to that is fine, we all have opinions. The intent of the thread, however, was NOT as you're suggesting.

I may have to wait-and-see on baseball games this year. Each year I buy at least one, if not two, baseball games. Problem is, the same ol' silly mistake/omissions (of things that are easily fixable and are of great importance to creating authenticism) continue to exist.

When the game makers start listening to ME by making these games look and act realistic, then I'll start talking to them with my wallet.

well, i hate to tell ya though, but saying that cutout crowds are necessary in order to have a realistic authentic baseball game is an opinion that is on the extreme side of the minority. I doubt there are too many people out there thinking "well, the game plays great, but since it has a cutout crowd, it's hardly worth my money" kind of thing.

But of course, you have the right to your opinion and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Hopefully you'll find the baseball game you're looking for soon.

[UkTribe]

Re: Something about the screenshots

Cutout crowds dont especially bother me but I suspect the reason for it is as follows.

When new hardware comes out the developers push that hardware to the limit by moving to faster frame rates and more polygons. There is a max number of polygons that hardware can support at a given frame rate.

It's therefore always a balance between the framerate, polygons invested in the actual game and polygons invested in the crowd.

I suspect this issue will therefore not be "fixed" by new hardware. And I for one think this is right. Realistic crowds are nice (but I think crowd noise is better and MVP 04 did this really well), the ball bouncing off sections of the stadium out of the field of play is also really nice. However, I'd rather see a betyter / smoother game engine every time.

[UkTribe]

Re: Something about the screenshots

Cutout crowds dont especially bother me but I suspect the reason for it is as follows.

When new hardware comes out the developers push that hardware to the limit by moving to faster frame rates and more polygons. There is a max number of polygons that hardware can support at a given frame rate.

It's therefore always a balance between the framerate, polygons invested in the actual game and polygons invested in the crowd.

I suspect this issue will therefore not be "fixed" by new hardware. And I for one think this is right. Realistic crowds are nice (but I think crowd noise is better and MVP 04 did this really well), the ball bouncing off sections of the stadium out of the field of play is also really nice. However, I'd rather see a betyter / smoother game engine every time.

[brudjazz]

Re: Something about the screenshots

well, i hate to tell ya though, but saying that cutout crowds are necessary in order to have a realistic authentic baseball game is an opinion that is on the extreme side of the minority. I doubt there are too many people out there thinking "well, the game plays great, but since it has a cutout crowd, it's hardly worth my money" kind of thing.

But of course, you have the right to your opinion and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Hopefully you'll find the baseball game you're looking for soon.

Nobody, not even I, said the game was hardly worth worth the money because the crowds look awful. If you want a realistic baseball game, then as much as you don't agree with this, you DO need a realistic crowd. What's a baseball game in real life if no one shows up? Do you think a real game of baseball would be anywhere as close to immersive with just cardboard fans in the stands as it is with real fans? I don't. Sure, the game will go on with fans or without fans. After all, it's the teams that have to win, not the fans. Still, the immersiveness has never really been there in the video baseball games, and bad crowds and the sounds they make are just part of why this has been so. Other games (football and basketball) are quite a bit ahead in this respect, and it's because game makers and video game fans of those respective sports realize how immersion factors into how much fun a simulation of a sport is.

[brudjazz]

Re: Something about the screenshots

well, i hate to tell ya though, but saying that cutout crowds are necessary in order to have a realistic authentic baseball game is an opinion that is on the extreme side of the minority. I doubt there are too many people out there thinking "well, the game plays great, but since it has a cutout crowd, it's hardly worth my money" kind of thing.

But of course, you have the right to your opinion and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Hopefully you'll find the baseball game you're looking for soon.

Nobody, not even I, said the game was hardly worth worth the money because the crowds look awful. If you want a realistic baseball game, then as much as you don't agree with this, you DO need a realistic crowd. What's a baseball game in real life if no one shows up? Do you think a real game of baseball would be anywhere as close to immersive with just cardboard fans in the stands as it is with real fans? I don't. Sure, the game will go on with fans or without fans. After all, it's the teams that have to win, not the fans. Still, the immersiveness has never really been there in the video baseball games, and bad crowds and the sounds they make are just part of why this has been so. Other games (football and basketball) are quite a bit ahead in this respect, and it's because game makers and video game fans of those respective sports realize how immersion factors into how much fun a simulation of a sport is.

[Keirik]

Re: Something about the screenshots

Nobody, not even I, said the game was hardly worth worth the money because the crowds look awful. If you want a realistic baseball game, then as much as you don't agree with this, you DO need a realistic crowd. What's a baseball game in real life if no one shows up? Do you think a real game of baseball would be anywhere as close to immersive with just cardboard fans in the stands as it is with real fans? I don't. Sure, the game will go on with fans or without fans. After all, it's the teams that have to win, not the fans. Still, the immersiveness has never really been there in the video baseball games, and bad crowds and the sounds they make are just part of why this has been so. Other games (football and basketball) are quite a bit ahead in this respect, and it's because game makers and video game fans of those respective sports realize how immersion factors into how much fun a simulation of a sport is.

you are comparing apples and oranges totally right now. Playing a console video game isn't the same as being in the stadium. I'm just trying to remind you that i believe you are in the extreme minority in this. If you want to say that graphics are important, then yes i understand. However, you are saying one specific aspect of the graphics, the crowd, is just as high on the importance list as having realistic player models. Now, if you said that the players look more like ogres rather than baseball players, i'd agree with you. However, i don't see how you expect the dev teams to spend weeks developing a full realistic crowd when there are much more important visual aspects to be worked on. When i play sporting games, you see the crowd maybe for a grand total of one minute after adding up all the tiny little clips.

A ton of games cheat by giving cut scenes with realistic crowds and that seems to do the trick. ESPN does that as well. Now whatever, it may not be the best solution at all, but if you really think the background crowd images is as important as the foreground graphics, then i'd say you definitely are in the minority. I hadn't come across too many people in the years of playing games who've said "Well, if they just spent as much time with the crowd as they did with the realistic player models, this game would be worth buying" Companies aren't unlimited in time and bordered by the hardware they need to deal with. There's some aspects that get put on the back burner for more important things or just totally excluded in order to keep frame rate and smoothness at a maximum. Crowd graphics are just one of them whether you like it or not. Again, i'd say you are in the minority here.