Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

[soltrain]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

He's been a leadoff hitter/#2 hitter his whole career. That isn't his job.

However...in 1999 he hit 24 homeruns and had 102 rbi's.

Yet you guys are ripping on Podsednik for his lack of power numbers? A lead off hitters job is also to steal bases and give the OPPURTUNITIES to get driven in...which Scott is doing a GREAT job of.

[SportsTop]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

He's been a leadoff hitter/#2 hitter his whole career. That isn't his job.

However...in 1999 he hit 24 homeruns and had 102 rbi's.

Which highlights another one of his strengths, he doesn't try to play above himself. In a day and age where everyone wants to hit the ball 500 feet and snare all the offensive records, Jeter understands the role he plays on his team. His team has continued to win in large part because of this.

How many times in the past 25 years has a team with the league leader in RBIs won the World Series? None.

How many times in the past 25 years has a team with the league leader in HRs won the World Series? Once, and it was last year (Manny Ramirez).

Baseball isn't always about 25 HRs and 100 RBIs. It's about winning.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

Which highlights another one of his strengths, he doesn't try to play above himself. In a day and age where everyone wants to hit the ball 500 feet and snare all the offensive records, Jeter understands the role he plays on his team. His team has continued to win in large part because of this.

How many times in the past 25 years has a team with the league leader in RBIs won the World Series? None.

How many times in the past 25 years has a team with the league leader in HRs won the World Series? Once, and it was last year (Manny Ramirez).

Baseball isn't always about 25 HRs and 100 RBIs. It's about winning.

Then why were you criticizing Podsednik for his lack of power? They're both leadoff hitters.

[SportsTop]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

Then why were you criticizing Podsednik for his lack of power? They're both leadoff hitters.

Before we go any further, can you kindly direct me to the post where I mentioned anything critical pertaining to Podsednik's lack of power.

[NYJets]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

Before we go any further, can you kindly direct me to the post where I mentioned anything critical pertaining to Podsednik's lack of power.

Yea, I think most of us were criticizing him for his average, OBP, and runs scored not being all that great.

[jomcclane]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

I'm a lile-long Yankees fan, but I've never liked Derek Jeter - his face, his gait, his overall presence.

I've completely blocked out of my mind the fact that he's the team captain.

I wonder how Mattingly deals with this fact?

There's just something Kobe Bryant-esque about Jeter.

[SportsTop]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

I wonder how Mattingly deals with this fact?

Probably the same why he deals with the fact that he never won a championship.

[Vince]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

To put Jeter in the same sentence with those three is a joke.

Intangibles are important, but in the end, production is more important. The number one thing that made Jordan, Magic, & Favre great was not "intangibles." The number one thing that made them great was that they were incredible players who were incredibly productive. MJ earned it by scoring 30 points every night, Magic earned it by getting 20 points and 10 assists every night, Favre earned it by throwing for 30 TD passes every year. These guys had legendary on-field ability; they weren't merely above average performers who got pumped up by the media because they had "intangibles."

They all put up big numbers and won multiple MVP awards, neither of which Jeter has done. Don't get me wrong: he's a terrific player, but wake me up when he hits 25 HR's or has 100 RBI's in a season, because in the end, you have to produce.

On top of that, he's only a .306 hitter in the postseason. That's very good, but it certainly isn't the stuff of legends.

Agreed. Those 3 were considered the best at their respective positions.

[SportsTop]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

Agreed. Those 3 were considered the best at their respective positions.

A. Favre is not/was never considered the best at his position.

B. Once again, we are talking intangibles not whether or not they were the best in the game or even at their position.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

Read my post again. At no point did I say that Jeter's accomplishments are comparable to Jordan's.

I said that Jeter has transcended the sport as Jordan did his. Jeter is the face and leader of the Yankees dynasty that has been (or was depending on your point of view) the example for winning and excellence.

Don't turn my post into a "Jeter is as good as Jordan argument" because that isn't the issue.

Look at the facts and you'll see that you can't argue with what I've stated.

Actually, I can. Here goes:

You're essentially reifying an abstract notion such as "transcending", and correlating it to an individual's overall impact, another abstract notion. You must feel really smart to claim that nobody can argue you with you when it's inherently impossible to counter-argue an abstract notion. Example:

"Oh yea? Well Barry Bonds has 4x more impacts and transcendations than Jeter!"

This is the problem with arguing about intangibles. Intangibles are inherently not quantifiable, so attempting to argue that somebody has more or less than the next guy is just not sound. Not coincidentally, this is a major reason why so many people dislike Jeter; all of his supporters seem to be utterly consumed with his intangibles, and use the intangibles to support their arguments, which is impossible to prove or disprove.

I personally respect the way Jeter plays baseball. I don't care about his calm eyes, his elegant gait, how much of a clubhouse leader he is, or all that non-salient information. He is who he is, a pretty damn good SS in the biggest media market in the country. If he plays for the Diamondbacks, nobody has this argument in the first place.

[SportsTop]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

Actually, I can. Here goes:

You're essentially reifying an abstract notion such as "transcending", and correlating it to an individual's overall impact, another abstract notion. You must feel really smart to claim that nobody can argue you with you when it's inherently impossible to counter-argue an abstract notion. Example:

"Oh yea? Well Barry Bonds has 4x more impacts and transcendations than Jeter!"

This is the problem with arguing about intangibles. Intangibles are inherently not quantifiable, so attempting to argue that somebody has more or less than the next guy is just not sound. Not coincidentally, this is a major reason why so many people dislike Jeter; all of his supporters seem to be utterly consumed with his intangibles, and use the intangibles to support their arguments, which is impossible to prove or disprove.

I personally respect the way Jeter plays baseball. I don't care about his calm eyes, his elegant gait, how much of a clubhouse leader he is, or all that non-salient information. He is who he is, a pretty damn good SS in the biggest media market in the country. If he plays for the Diamondbacks, nobody has this argument in the first place.

Well what we have here is quite the conundrum.

We all love to talk about the separation that one athlete has over another beyond statistics and the only way we can quantify that is by how they transcend their sport. It's part of the debates that make sports the lifeblood for those of us that live them.

I don't know what to tell you if you think you can't debate that fact. There aren't many people (only a handful that I've seen) who don't think Jeter possesses the intangibles that so many people say he has.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

I'm not a Jeter fan. I'm not a Yankee fan. But I cannot deny what I've seen from him over the past 10 years. Simply put, he's a leader and he's a winner. I'll take that any day over 35 HRs and 125 RBIs from a player on a team that doesn't even make the playoffs.

[Armitage]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

Well what we have here is quite the conundrum.

We all love to talk about the separation that one athlete has over another beyond statistics and the only way we can quantify that is by how they transcend their sport. It's part of the debates that make sports the lifeblood for those of us that live them.

I don't know what to tell you if you think you can't debate that fact. There aren't many people (only a handful that I've seen) who don't think Jeter possesses the intangibles that so many people say he has.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

I'm not a Jeter fan. I'm not a Yankee fan. But I cannot deny what I've seen from him over the past 10 years. Simply put, he's a leader and he's a winner. I'll take that any day over 35 HRs and 125 RBIs from a player on a team that doesn't even make the playoffs.

That's why I think Jeter > A-Rod, for example. A-Rod can put up all the stats he can but he's never come across to me as a guy that's capable of winning a championship in the end. Jeter doesn't always have the best stats but they're damn good enough, and honestly good enough to consider a nod this year. He's one of the most clutch players on his team and plays hard every time he is out there. He seems like he treats every game and every at-bat like a playoff game. He would be that way no matter where he plays.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

Again, people, you can not argue on the merits of a player based on "how hard it looks like he's playing". A lot of players play hard. In fact, I'd say most of the players in the league play hard. Big f'n deal. Who are we to judge who looks like they are playing hard based on what we see through a television monitor?

Just because you haven't met people who don't believe Jeter has holy intangibles doesn't prove a damn thing. It's likely that 500 years ago, most people couldn't find another person to believe the world wasn't flat. This doesn't prove a thing as far as I'm concerned.

You'll keep arguing in circles if you try to prove something that is unprovable. You're wasting your time.

Honestly, if you just said that Jeter is great because he provides above average offensive production from the SS position, I believe you'll find a lot of people who agree with your assertion.
When you start introducing mumbo-jumbo such as high character, leadership, intangibles, playing hard and all this crapola, you're truly doing yourself a disservice, because Jeter IS a good player; you're just making it seem like you're hiding his actual production because you are so obsessed with his ******* intangibles.

Contrary to what most sports fans think, the games are not decided by who has more heart and character. This is one element to the game. I'd say actual talent and ability has a far greater impact on who is good and who isn't.

[SportsTop]

Re: Rob Dibble on Jeter snub

Again, people, you can not argue on the merits of a player based on "how hard it looks like he's playing". A lot of players play hard. In fact, I'd say most of the players in the league play hard. Big f'n deal. Who are we to judge who looks like they are playing hard based on what we see through a television monitor?

No one is saying "look how hard he's playing".

When you start introducing mumbo-jumbo such as high character, leadership, intangibles, playing hard and all this crapola, you're truly doing yourself a disservice, because Jeter IS a good player; you're just making it seem like you're hiding his actual production because you are so obsessed with his ******* intangibles.

You can make an argument for how much high character, leadership, and other intangibles matter to a team. If they weren't then why is Jeter held in such high regard by everyone in his locker room and the opposing teams?

I find it surprising that you don't know how much of an effect leadership has on a group of people. You are truly missing out.