So what about the baseball records now?

[Freelance]

So now that we know that incredible home run race between McGwire and Sosa was nothing but a chemically induced human freak show....and now that we know that Palmeiro's name is attached to Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and Eddie Murray as the only 500-homer-3000-hit guys......

What do we do with the record books?

In my mind, Roger Maris still has the season home-run record. Aaron will still hold the record even if/when Bonds injects his name into the all-time HR record.

Sammy Sosa hit 400 homers in 8 years!!! What are we to make of that in terms of baseball history? How do we compare that to the acheivements of Ruth, Mantle, Mays, Schmidt, Robinson, etc?

It seems now that we need to take the past 15-18 years and rat-hole it into some sort of special statistical category.

Steroids have reduced baseball statistics to little more than homers and strikeouts. Good doubles hitters are now "guys lacking pop in their bat", and speedy players are now "bench utility players."

Even the league marketed their game with "Chicks love the long ball!"

What's left is a complete bastardization of a game that is reliant on its history to be relevent. Face it, a baseball game isn't particularly captivating unless you understand the historical basis for what you are seeing. Other sports don't suffer from that reality.

For baseball to be viable, it must have tradition. And I just don't know what to make of the past 15 years anymore, or what to do with the juiced statistics that occurred as a result.

[NYJets]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

In my mind, Roger Maris still has the season home-run record. Aaron will still hold the record even if/when Bonds injects his name into the all-time HR record.

I agree with that completely.

[Freelance]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

Guys, turn on the ESPN Classics channel for a 1982 game sometime. The players look like they're in high school.

I remember when players like "Bull" Durham were the big slugger types. Then you see them in the old videos, and they look like Derek Jeter.

I've got a feeling that this steroid thing was more rampant than we care to know.

[dkgojackets]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

So now that we know that incredible home run race between McGwire and Sosa was nothing but a chemically induced human freak show....and now that we know that Palmeiro's name is attached to Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and Eddie Murray as the only 500-homer-3000-hit guys......

What do we do with the record books?

In my mind, Roger Maris still has the season home-run record. Aaron will still hold the record even if/when Bonds injects his name into the all-time HR record.

Sammy Sosa hit 400 homers in 8 years!!! What are we to make of that in terms of baseball history? How do we compare that to the acheivements of Ruth, Mantle, Mays, Schmidt, Robinson, etc?

It seems now that we need to take the past 15-18 years and rat-hole it into some sort of special statistical category.

Steroids have reduced baseball statistics to little more than homers and strikeouts. Good doubles hitters are now "guys lacking pop in their bat", and speedy players are now "bench utility players."

Even the league marketed their game with "Chicks love the long ball!"

What's left is a complete bastardization of a game that is reliant on its history to be relevent. Face it, a baseball game isn't particularly captivating unless you understand the historical basis for what you are seeing. Other sports don't suffer from that reality.

For baseball to be viable, it must have tradition. And I just don't know what to make of the past 15 years anymore, or what to do with the juiced statistics that occurred as a result.

Personally, I dont give a damn about personal records. How many of those "juiced" guys have a WS ring? Bonds? Sosa?

And wasn't the record for most hits in a season just broken by a singles hitter?

I actually care more about whos going to win the Wild Card race right NOW than something that happened years ago.

Whatever if Bonds physically swung a bat and put more balls over the fence than Aaron, then he has the record for home runs. End of story. It doesnt really matter.

[mjb2124]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

I agree with that completely.

I agree as well. Maris is the single season HR king in my mind and Aaron is the career HR Leader.

The game today is so far from what it was years ago. IMO it was much better back then, but if you don't have guys hitting mammoth HR's and throwing 100 MPH today, people don't want to watch.

Much of this probably has to do with my declining interest in the sport I once loved. Less and less you see that player who's able to dominate a game with his mind. Those are the guys that I really enjoy watching.

[Freelance]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

Whatever if Bonds physically swung a bat and put more balls over the fence than Aaron, then he has the record for home runs. End of story. It doesnt really matter.

Except that Aaron did it in much bigger ballparks, with softer baseballs, with wider strike zones, and without the aid of inhuman amounts of testerone in his system.

Aaron weighed 180 pounds his whole career. Bonds head ways more than 180.

[ehh]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

If you get caught using steriods, your statisics should be voided. Palmeiro should not be recognized as a member of either the 3,000 hit club or the 500 home run club. He should not be eligible for the Hall of Fame. Do what the NCAA did to Michigan for the Fab Five era. "It's as if they never existed."

It's more difficult with other players such as McGwire and Sosa (who will clearly never admit to steriod use) because in our judicial system you're innocent until proven guilty. You can't discount McGwire's statistics until there's concrete proof he was on the juice (and no, giant forearms and bulging biceps in '98 and then looking like a Somalian in '05 doesn't count as concrete proof). While just about every baseball fan in their right mind knows that these guys were on steriods, you can't unjustly take away their accomplishments. Like others have said, Roger Maris is still the home run king IMO.

If one day in the future all of these guys are exposed then they should not be in the Hall of Fame and should have their records stricken from the books and Maris should be given the home run record again. If Barry Bonds breaks Aaron's record, Aaron should still keep it in the books.

Bonds is the only exception to this whole situation because chances are he was going into the Hall of Fame even if he never started looking like a linebacker. He was a great player in the early-mid 90's. However, if he ever gets caught and it's proven that he cheated, he deserves a lifetime ban and his records removed.


Bottom line in my opinion, in my own mind I believe that Maris and Aaron will be the HR kings until someone else in the future breaks these recods, like perhaps A-Rod or Pujols passing 755 sometime in 2016. The men who came before them such as Mantle, Maris, Aaron, Mays and so on are being disrespected tremendously if McGwire and Sosa are let into the HOF and keep the home run records. All of this if these guys eventually get exposed.

[Jimplication]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

Even without steroids, players are much more conditioned and muscular than they were back in "the day."

I think it's interesting how certain aspects of self improvement are encouraged, whereas others are measures for suspension and stat nullifying. As time moves forward, so does the game and its players.

In todays game, players work out more, train more, and have better managers at all levels, to help them get to where they are.

Players can take some supplements, but not others without being disciplined. Until the league has a more complete and functional steroid policy, I don't really agree with the notion that everyone that uses is getting caught.

Even without steroids, today's players are bigger, faster, and stronger. Everyone that hits homeruns doesn't use steroids, and it's a shame that MLB's sporadic and lacking steroid policy leaves fans wondering, and speculating, that all players that hit homers are juicing.

If caught, I think a player's statistics should be nullified, however, I don't think there is ever going to be a complete and all encompassing steroid detection policy, so the result is cloudiness in relation to all of today's records.

Also, just because you take steroids, doesn't guarantee any scrub can hit 50+ homers a year. Until there is clear and valid research in regards to steroids and their benefit on both sides of the game, I am also a little reluctant to totally throw out a player's accomplishments.

If they broke the rules, and the rules state a player isn't eligible, fine, but that doesn't mean it has to make sense. Pete Rose gambled, but was a great hitter. That gambling had no effect on his ability to hit as well as he did, and yet he is banned from the Hall. As it stands, the current steroid policy is weak and pathetic, and makes no mention of offenders being banned from the Hall, or their stats nullified; and so they shouldn't be. If MLB is going to create arbitrary and weak rules, then they should expect to get both sides of the coin when their enforcement in implemented.

[ILLCHILL]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

While Bonds may have done alot of thoe with 'roids, in a league where seemingly everyone is taking them, how many have even come close to utterly dominating like Bonds has?

[Motown]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

While Bonds may have done alot of thoe with 'roids, in a league where seemingly everyone is taking them, how many have even come close to utterly dominating like Bonds has?

Man, CHEATIN' IS CHEATIN' Bro... Bonds wouldn't be near 700, if he didn't juice!
His broken down 'ole Azz(like now) Would not even be in the same Zip as Aaron,Ruth, Mays...and that goes for McGwire,Sosa,Palmeiro,etc...ANd I STILL think Roger Clemens is juicin'...you wait & see!

[USCTrojan83]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

Every Era is different and untimately if you guys are wipping off records why not kill every record Ruth, Cobb, Johnson, and Cy Young had before the days African-Americans could take the field.

You cant just wipe the records off the board. Sure you can put your asterisk next to their name. You can do what ever you want.

But every Era has had its downfall from the All White Club to The Greenie Era to the Steroid Era. The fact is the only reason steroids is ever prevelant today is because its something that changes the physique of a ball player. Hell if were banning Steroids why not ban all Performance enhancing drugs. Balls players didnt have all the medical advances players have today. Are we supposed to wipe away the stats from the 90's on?

You never hear about them banning stimulants that players take to improve hand eye coordination or help them through a 162 game schedule. You guys want to wipe the record books clean it wont happen. Theres too much shady stuff that went on during the 100+ years baseball has been in existence.

The banning of players from the HOF is more realistic...but the cleansing of records IMO will never happen.

[devilsjaw]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

Guys, turn on the ESPN Classics channel for a 1982 game sometime. The players look like they're in high school.

I remember when players like "Bull" Durham were the big slugger types. Then you see them in the old videos, and they look like Derek Jeter.

I've got a feeling that this steroid thing was more rampant than we care to know.

You could say the same thing about every sport though, as far as conditioning goes. But I do agree, they do look tiny. Baseball, to me, was always a purist's sport. Now it's tainted...badly.

Personally, I feel if a player is guitly of taking steroids, the player's union should kick him out, and all his stats should be deemed unofficial. He can keep his numbers, but they won't show up in any type of record book. A 10 day suspension doesn't make up for 10 years of cheating.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

Man, CHEATIN' IS CHEATIN' Bro... Bonds wouldn't be near 700, if he didn't juice!
His broken down 'ole Azz(like now) Would not even be in the same Zip as Aaron,Ruth, Mays...

Bonds had 3 MVPs in his first 7 years of the league before the supposed steroid era...before the age of 30 yrs old. To say he isnt in the same ZIP as Aaron, Ruth and Mays is kind of an exaggeration. Mays had two, Ruth one, and Aaron one...I know MXVs doesnt put him in the same bracket, but he was putting up great stats in the early 90's and would have been considered better than his father and in the same league with some of the greats of Mays, Aaron and Ruth

He wouldnt be near 700 HR's, but anyone who knows baseball knew he was destined for the HOF as long as he stayed healthy ...

And if cheating is cheating...then those pitchers like Neikro and others who have admitting to using spitballs and other methods to gain an advantage should be banished from the HOF and any records they have admonished from the books too right? Oh and Rose should not have the records he holds either...Come on it isnt realistic

[ehh]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

You cant just wipe the records off the board. Sure you can put your asterisk next to their name. You can do what ever you want.

Why not? They did it with the Fab Five at Michigan and a few other players who came after them. Sure it's a different sport, but it certainly can be done.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: So what about the baseball records now?

Why not? They did it with the Fab Five at Michigan and a few other players who came after them. Sure it's a different sport, but it certainly can be done.

Because those who have been caught or admitted to cheating would not be in the record books if it could be done...The fact is baseball wont do it, and they shouldnt. The game has been mired by worse things than steroids over its history. Some of the can and cant be controlled...The only time something has been wiped clean was with the Black Sox...Banned from the GAME...not from the record books...