Papi vs A-Rod

[SportsTop]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Personally i'd go with Travis Hafner but since the award gets voted on in september he started his surge too little too late.

I'd go with Ortiz.

Hafner had that stint on the DL sandwiched in between going nearly a month and a half without an HR. That is probably a little too much for him to win it.

[SportsTop]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

It wouldnt suprize me to see A-Rod get it though seeing we live in a uber marketablity society now and as much as some people like Ortiz, hes just not as "marketable" as A-Rod. A-Rod has Nike, and everything else. Give him the MVP and baseball gets even more exposure due to A-Rods alread A-List celebrity status.

Yeah, because Vlad and Miggy are just so much more marketable than Ortiz.

You're reaching a bit, don't you think?

[dce1228]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

If Ortiz played the field regularly the Sox would've probably lost 2 or 3 games more than they have... so to say the fact he doesn't deserve it because he doesn't play the field misses the point.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

so your saying it makes him more valuable because hes bad in the field???

The MVP isnt just the best hitting stats award. A player should have to play all aspects of the game

[dce1228]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

so your saying it makes him more valuable because hes bad in the field???

The MVP isnt just the best hitting stats award. A player should have to play all aspects of the game

I think the award is about run production and the timeliness of that run production... run production could apply to A-Rod if he's constantly preventing runs from scoring with his defense at third.

I guess we have to ask the qustion how many games has a-rod won in the field then compare it to Papi, since Papi hasn't won any... but... if Papi HAD played in the field I'd have to count it against him, since he's terrible, but he hasn't... I don't know, makes sense to me.

One could argue Rivera has been more valuable than A-rod even on the yankees... no one has brought that up, but I think Rivera should be getting some votes.

[ILLCHILL]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

One could argue Rivera has been more valuable than A-rod even on the yankees... no one has brought that up, but I think Rivera should be getting some votes.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Not Rivera, but this statement in general. The guy isn't the own MVP on his own team, Mo' is. Papi's clutchness is stuff of legends, he is the MVP in my mind, as long as the Sox dont tank and end up 5 games out.

[blackceasar]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Yeah, because Vlad and Miggy are just so much more marketable than Ortiz.

You're reaching a bit, don't you think?

Vlad was more clear of a winner when he won his. The race between Papi and A-Rod is so close it could go either way without people feeling like the other person got robbed. Reach for a marketing book. Its just like when Roy Jones Jr. and Tarver fought in thier first pro fight. Tarver unofficially won that fight, but Jones was the popular favorite and the fight was so close they could give it to Jones (which they did) without there being too much controversy. The race Vlad was in last year was not as tight as the race is this year. Im not telling you what I heard, Im telling you what I know. There are politics involved at times in this and its not as clear cut and black and white as youd like to think. If A-Rod won it wouldnt suprise me, even though I think Ortiz should get it, if just by a hair..but like I said, A-Rod is A-Rod.. hes going to go to the hall of fame, he has a very good chance of breaking Arron/Bond's HR records, he has been a superstar since his rookie year, Ortiz is just now starting to get noticed over the past 2-3 years. If Im Nike and I can only pick one to sell my stuff, who you think im gonna have do it???

Im just saying, its very very close, like I said the Roy Jones vs. Tarver fight, the first pro fight they had is the best analogy I can think of. Roy is.. well.. Roy Jones.. Tarver was "who?" Now Ortiz is by no means a nobody, hes in the news every day, but A-Rod is almost golden boyish in terms of star power, celebrity, etc. Do I think A-Rod should win? Nope..but if he does its so close that you wont be able to tell yourself Ortiz was robbed in broad daylight.

I hate to say it but I feel like its gonna come down to a popularity contest and when you look at the bigger picture Papi pales in comparison. A-Rod has that Michael Jordan type of following. What I mean is, when Jordan was at the top of his career, you had people who called MJ thier favorite player, and these were people in chicago or close to there, THEN you had tons and tons and endless tons of people who might not be bulls fans or live anywhere near Chicago, yet MJ is still thier favorite player. A-Rod has people in NY that call him thier fav player, and outside of NY from coast to coast hes got kids and people who call him his favorite player. Sure Ortiz does too but when you leave Boston, the A-Rod fans outnumber the Ortiz fans in droves.

[blackceasar]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

so your saying it makes him more valuable because hes bad in the field???

The MVP isnt just the best hitting stats award. A player should have to play all aspects of the game

Well that theory has holes in it. Let me punch a hole in it. Youre basically saying no DH deserves to win an MVP, regardless of what he does as a DH..thats what youre basically saying. If thats the case then I guess no rookie pitcher in the american league even if he goes 23-5 with a 2.43 ERA should win rookie of the year cuz hes not *gasp* batting (batting would be part of an aspect of the game right???) Im looking at you right now through that big hole i just shot in your idea.

[blackceasar]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

I think the award is about run production and the timeliness of that run production... run production could apply to A-Rod if he's constantly preventing runs from scoring with his defense at third.

I guess we have to ask the qustion how many games has a-rod won in the field then compare it to Papi, since Papi hasn't won any... but... if Papi HAD played in the field I'd have to count it against him, since he's terrible, but he hasn't... I don't know, makes sense to me.

One could argue Rivera has been more valuable than A-rod even on the yankees... no one has brought that up, but I think Rivera should be getting some votes.

Well for the people that think you have to play defense to qualify for MVP.. last time I checked it meant Most valuable player.. PERIOD. It doesnt say most valuable player who hits and plays defense. The way it was intented to work is the winner is considered the most valuable player to a team, maybe any team in the league since its not team a award but a league award. Okay, so lets stick Papi back on first base..85% of ground balls hit are NOT going to go to him..more times than others hes going to have to cover 1st base and wait for someone to throw him the ball to put the runner out. Some people in this thread make it seem like you have to hit 50 HR's 120 RBI's bat 330, AND more or less play a feild position that requires you to move to the ball most part...so lets just take back the MVP awards that every first baseman or catcher has ever won.

IMO Papi is more valuable to the Red Sox this year than A-Rod is to the Yankees.

[Stoud]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Arod.

and just to make sure nobody gets confused, I DO favor the Red Sox over the Yankees. Arod is just the better player. We talked about hi9m like he was the greatest young hitter in the MLB just a couple years back, then last year he goes to the Yankees and his fanbase gets cut in half by hypocrites. Add onto that the subpar year he had in his first year with the Yankees (to be expected) and even more people seem to start hypocritically reversing their views on the guy. Now this year he comes back to form and produces like we've all expected. ME? I wanted Arod to play Short and Jeter to move to 3rd when he came over, because Arod is just more valuable at short, and if you ask me, captain whoever the hell you want, you can take the player out of the short but you can't take the short outta the player. So yeah, he's not as valuable as he could be because he's stuck at 3rd, but he's still pretty valuable. Deny and/or spin things any and every way you want, but the cold facts are that Arod plays a position, he's STILL the best hitting young player in the MLB, could be considered the best fielding if he had been put at short, and he's given the Yanks more than they could have hoped for, seeing as how they seemed pretty willing to accept a .280 Arod and he's now hitting well over .300 with much better power and ribbi numbers. That was a long sentence with too many commas. So kill me.

Alex Rodriguez just deserves it more than David Ortiz.

[SportsTop]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Well for the people that think you have to play defense to qualify for MVP.. last time I checked it meant Most valuable player.. PERIOD.

A player's defense can be one facet of how valuable he is to his team. If ARod wins a gold glove at third base (and it's looking like he will), that will have an effect on who the voters cast their ballot for.

[deeman11747]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

For all the people that say Papi's defense shouldn't be a factor because he's a terrible 1st baseman... what you are essentially saying is that the fact that hes a terrible defender makes him more valubable than him being a good one.


So because he's a DH.... he deserves MVP more because he's helping out his team by not playing in the field? Thats absolutely rediculous. That whole arguement could be avoided if he was a good 1st baseman..... but hes not... and that devalues him.


I still think Oritz wins it but that arguement is unbelievably ********.

[dce1228]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

For all the people that say Papi's defense shouldn't be a factor because he's a terrible 1st baseman... what you are essentially saying is that the fact that hes a terrible defender makes him more valubable than him being a good one.


So because he's a DH.... he deserves MVP more because he's helping out his team by not playing in the field? Thats absolutely rediculous. That whole arguement could be avoided if he was a good 1st baseman..... but hes not... and that devalues him.


I still think Oritz wins it but that arguement is unbelievably ********.

He doesn't deserve it more because he's a DH, he just doesn't deserve it less. Come on Dee, think in terms of how many games a player wins with their defense by being better than the average defender at their position... it's pointless to propose, what if Ortiz was a good defender, because he's not... but he is a terrible defender, and since he DHs it doesn't take away from his case for the MVP, which it would if he was in the National League.

The nature of the AL, with the DH, makes a player like Ortiz immensely valuable. If he was in the NL, he would be less valuable. There's nothing ******** there.

This debate is a good example of why the DH is lame...

[deeman11747]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

He doesn't deserve it more because he's a DH, he just doesn't deserve it less. Come on Dee, think in terms of how many games a player wins with their defense by being better than the average defender at their position... it's pointless to propose, what if Ortiz was a good defender, because he's not... but he is a terrible defender, and since he DHs it doesn't take away from his case for the MVP, which it would if he was in the National League.

The nature of the AL, with the DH, makes a player like Ortiz immensely valuable. If he was in the NL, he would be less valuable. There's nothing ******** there.

This debate is a good example of why the DH is lame...

Well thats why I think its a lot closer than it should be. The number of games A-Rod has won with his glove + the number of games he's won with his bat may be just slightly more than what Ortiz has won with his bat.

I was only arguing that people shouldn't be making a point that Ortiz is more valuable as a DH than a 1B because his defense is bad. Well yeah... obviously he's worth more at DH because you dont want his piss-poor play in the field... but he shouldnt be rewarded for not being a goof 1B. That was the only point I was trying to make.

Regardless... the Red Sox without Ortiz are a lot worse than the Yankee without A-Rod...making him the MVP.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Well that theory has holes in it. Let me punch a hole in it. Youre basically saying no DH deserves to win an MVP, regardless of what he does as a DH..thats what youre basically saying. If thats the case then I guess no rookie pitcher in the american league even if he goes 23-5 with a 2.43 ERA should win rookie of the year cuz hes not *gasp* batting (batting would be part of an aspect of the game right???) Im looking at you right now through that big hole i just shot in your idea.

what? That is a terrible comparison because pitchers and position players are completely different. Even so, whatever position player you pick would have no innings pitched on the year (pitching would be part of an aspect of the game right???), so you could cancel not playing those aspects out, even though its so stupid its not considered "canceling out". I make a valid point that he doesnt play the field, and you respond with an awful, unthought out analogy that does not relate at all. Horrible misfire there buddy.