Papi vs A-Rod

[dce1228]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Well thats why I think its a lot closer than it should be. The number of games A-Rod has won with his glove + the number of games he's won with his bat may be just slightly more than what Ortiz has won with his bat.

I was only arguing that people shouldn't be making a point that Ortiz is more valuable as a DH than a 1B because his defense is bad. Well yeah... obviously he's worth more at DH because you dont want his piss-poor play in the field... but he shouldnt be rewarded for not being a goof 1B. That was the only point I was trying to make.

Regardless... the Red Sox without Ortiz are a lot worse than the Yankee without A-Rod...making him the MVP.

lol, this debate reminds me of the time AI tried to sell everybody that Giambi was versatile because he could DH... but nevertheless, I can see your point, but I assure you that's not what I'm getting at. Many want to discount Ortiz from the race because he's a DH, but I just consider him an average fielder who contributes nothing... so yeah, you have to give AROD an extra check-mark for his above average defense, but at the same time I give Ortiz an extra check mark for his leadership abilities, which I feel reach farther than A-Rod's contributions... but in the end the winner of the AL east will have the player getting the MVP: Ortiz if Boston, Mariano Rivera if the Yanks... HA!!!!

[Stu]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

A-Rod should win because fielding is such an important part of this award. Look at the past winners in the AL, with great fielders such as: Jason Giambi, Juan Gonzalez(twice), Mo Vaughn, Frank Thomas (twice) and Jose Canseco.

/sarcasm

Cmon people. It's an offensive award and it always has been. People who bring fielding into the argument are just looking for ways to leave Ortiz out because you don't like him or you don't like the DH. Bottom line, whoever wins the division deserves the MVP.

[deeman11747]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

A-Rod should win because fielding is such an important part of this award. Look at the past winners in the AL, with great fielders such as: Jason Giambi, Juan Gonzalez(twice), Mo Vaughn, Frank Thomas (twice) and Jose Canseco.

/sarcasm

Cmon people. It's an offensive award and it always has been. People who bring fielding into the argument are just looking for ways to leave Ortiz out because you don't like him or you don't like the DH. Bottom line, whoever wins the division deserves the MVP.

Its not the Hank Aaron Award though (I think thats the one for best offensive player).

It all depends on what the voters consider valuable. If some find that defense is not nearly as important as offense... then it easily goes to Ortiz. If voters weigh defense heavily.. then it should be A-Rod.

But like everyone said... it'll come down to who wins the East. Question is.. what if one wins the East and one wins the Wild Card. Then who gets it?

[ehh]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

A-Rod should win because fielding is such an important part of this award. Look at the past winners in the AL, with great fielders such as: Jason Giambi, Juan Gonzalez(twice), Mo Vaughn, Frank Thomas (twice) and Jose Canseco.

But there was no one else in the AL who had as good of offensive numbers during those years as the guys you listed. In this case it's neck and neck, and the fact that A-Rod brings a Gold Glove to the table certainly should have an impact on the award.

[BigRed]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

This debate about whether a DH can win the MVP should be put to bed.

If a closer can win it(Dennis Eckersley in '92, Rollie Fingers in '81), so can a DH.

And don't give me crap about saves and how many games Eck or Fingers won for their team's. Because they had to rely on the rest of the team for 8 innings to put them in the position to get the save. At least a DH is in the game all 9 innings and has a pretty good chance at being the reason his team is in the lead.

(fyi: Fingers only had 28 saves in '81).

[dkgojackets]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

People dont realize that just because it HAS happened doesnt mean it SHOULD be the way it happens. The topic is about OUR MVP and why, not who we think the voters will pick. If a person here thinks having a glove is important, then they will pick ARod. OUR MVP shouldnt be based on what we think others will vote for.

[videobastard]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

This is ********. You can bring forth these pointless debates all day, but since it's so close, here's the only thing that matters:

If the Red Sox win the AL East, Ortiz will win it.
If the Yankees win the AL East, Rodriguez will win it.

It's true.

I agree. Who ever wins the east will be crowned mvp.

[elicoleman]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Arod is striking out way too much to win an MVP award now.

While his September average is .326 (30/92), he's also struck out a whopping 26 times.

In his last 34 ABs (11 games), he's had 12 hits. He's struck out 16 times. Three of those 11 games, he struck out 3 times. Thats inexcusable during a Penant Race.

[deeman11747]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Arod is striking out way too much to win an MVP award now.

While his September average is .326 (30/92), he's also struck out a whopping 26 times.

In his last 34 ABs (11 games), he's had 12 hits. He's struck out 16 times. Three of those 11 games, he struck out 3 times. Thats inexcusable during a Penant Race.

I've always thought strikeouts is a meaningless stat. A better stat to look at the same thing is Productive Out % which I'm sure hasn't been too good for A-Rod lately.

[Chuck]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

But there was no one else in the AL who had as good of offensive numbers during those years as the guys you listed. In this case it's neck and neck, and the fact that A-Rod brings a Gold Glove to the table certainly should have an impact on the award.

Bingo.

[snepp]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

But there was no one else in the AL who had as good of offensive numbers during those years as the guys you listed. In this case it's neck and neck, and the fact that A-Rod brings a Gold Glove to the table certainly should have an impact on the award.

Cosigned.

Here's what I'm going with (not much reasoning behind it, just because)...

If both teams make the playoffs: Arod
If Red Sox don't: Arod
If Yankee don't: Ortiz

[gosensgo101]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Gotta go with the big Pappi. I don't care if he doesn't play in the field. IMO he's the best clutch hitter in the league.

[elicoleman]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Well, Arod's first two AB's tonight....2 K's.

3rd AB....47th HR of the season

[Ed_Farias]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

And Papi's last two at bats last night. Game tying homer in the 8th. Game winning RBI single in the 9th.

He does it time and time again.

[Beantown]

Re: Papi vs A-Rod

Ortiz's stats when at-bat in the 7th inning, with a chance to tie the game or give his team the lead:

.396 avg
19 hits
9 homeruns
23 RBI's
1.016 slugg %

Mr. Clutch....if he doesn't blow it in the last 3 games, he's got to be the MVP.

It's really A-Rods defense Vs papi's clutch-ness, as their stats are close enough to be a wash.