Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

[Dice]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

He won 15 this past season despite being injured for a while with a blister on his pitching hand. Main reason he doesn't have the W total is that his team never got him much offense. No run support = no wins.

If you look at his ERA or ERA+, they are both very good. I won't get into the other stats that show how good a pitcher is despite the team surrounding him.

As has been stated, wins are nothing for a pitcher. If he pitches 20 games and gives up 1 run each game, but his team scores 0, he losses all of them despite posting an incredible ERA.

My fault. I was thinking of A.J. Burnett when I first posted. I like Josh Beckett. I think he could be a number 1 starter. I see the Red Sox finally realized they ain't slugging there way to the World Series. Good move.

[DontHateOnNumber2]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

The potential trade will be complete pending physicals. I can't believe this. Hopefully the Sox will get the blister-ridden Beckett.

[DontHateOnNumber2]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

My fault. I was thinking of A.J. Burnett when I first posted. I like Josh Beckett. I think he could be a number 1 starter. I see the Red Sox finally realized they ain't slugging there way to the World Series. Good move.

They did in 2004 in my opinion. I'm guessing they wanted to stick with what worked for them. Besides, all kinds of crazy holes are needing to be filled up by the Red Sox now that Theo's gone.

[Dice]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

They did in 2004 in my opinion. I'm guessing they wanted to stick with what worked for them. Besides, all kinds of crazy holes are needing to be filled up by the Red Sox now that Theo's gone.

Yeah. They kinda slugged their way to the 2004 championship BUT the un-sung heroes of that team was the pitching staff, mainly Curt Schilling. ESPN couldn't get enough of hyping the 'bloodly' sock game in the ALCS.

And as was evident last year when Schilling was hurt and they let Martinez and Lowe go.

[Stu]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

Great trade for the Red Sox. They needed a young, legit, front of the rotation starter now that Schilling is on the down side of his career. A rotation of Beckett, Schill, Wake, Clement and Arroyo is pretty solid, with Papelbon ready to step in with any injuries.

I'm not a huge Lowell fan, especially because of his contract, but he is just as good as Mueller defensively and provides a little more pop at the plate. Hopefully we get the 2002-2004 Lowell instead of the 2005 version.

I'm also glad the Red Sox held Jon Lester out of the deal. He's a little further along than Sanchez and is a lefty. As far as Ramirez, not really that upset to lose him. We heard all this hype about him during spring training, but anybody who's seen him play in person, including myself, hasn't liked him at all. The kid still has a long ways to go before he'll be anywhere near MLB ready.

[SPTO]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

Yep that rotation is pretty solid but I think if the Sox want to win it all they'll sttill need to address the Bullpen. I read somewhere that Timlin expects to be in the closer role for '06. He isn't too bad despite the criticism but he isn't great in that role either.

I do have a question tho, what is the consensus on Clement. He had a very up and down season. Is this just par for the course in adjusting to a new league or are there some concern? I do know he pitched well at times but most of the time I saw him pitch he didn't look too good.

[Stu]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

Yep that rotation is pretty solid but I think if the Sox want to win it all they'll sttill need to address the Bullpen. I read somewhere that Timlin expects to be in the closer role for '06. He isn't too bad despite the criticism but he isn't great in that role either.

The bullpen is actually in better shape than most think, but they still have some question marks. Basically, you'll have the young guys like Papelbon, Delcarmen and Hansen starting the year in the bullpen, along with guys like Myers, Timlin and Foulke. I'm doubtful that Foulke can return to being a dominant closer so they could really use a BJ Ryan or Billy Wagner. I don't like Timlin in the role at all, but he is good enough if we have nothing else. If Papelbon can keep doing what he did last year and either Hansen or Delcarmen can make that same jump, they'll be in decent shape.

I do have a question tho, what is the consensus on Clement. He had a very up and down season. Is this just par for the course in adjusting to a new league or are there some concern? I do know he pitched well at times but most of the time I saw him pitch he didn't look too good.

The jury is still out on Clement. He was having a very good season last year up until he got hit in the head with that line drive. If he can return to the first half Matt Clement, you have a very solid starter. Either way, we're only asking him to be a #4 starter now rather than a #1 or #2 like last year.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

There's a perception Clement went into the tank after the line drive, but that's not true.

His ERA before the line drive 4.43
His ERA after the line drive 4.86

Overall I thought Clement had a solid season. Whenver a pitcher from the NL moves over to the AL you can expect them to take a bump in the ERA because they no longer face a pitcher.

[Vince]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

I think with this move, Burnett belongs to the Jays.

I heard that AJ's agent said that AJ will make a decision this week.

[APD0290]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

There's a perception Clement went into the tank after the line drive, but that's not true.

His ERA before the line drive 4.43
His ERA after the line drive 4.86

Overall I thought Clement had a solid season. Whenver a pitcher from the NL moves over to the AL you can expect them to take a bump in the ERA because they no longer face a pitcher.

Those are just numbers from a small sample size. Watching him pitch before and after he was hit was like watching two completely different pitchers. Before he got hit, he was hitting Tek's mitt on a consistent basis. After he was hit, he was wildly semi-effective. He never regained the command that he showed before being hit.

On the topic of Hanley, I'm very surprised that Florida wants him to step up and be their major league starter at short. He has the tools, but is 3 years away from being major league ready.

[deeman11747]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

Areany Red Sox fans upset with this deal? I know you havent seen Hanley play for an extended period of time in the big leagues so you haven't gotten a chance to grow attached to him which may make this easier...but if he's really as good as they say he is... this might not be that great of a trade for the Sox.

Not trying to be negative though... but the main questions are:

- Will Lowell bounce back from his decline?
- How will Beckett's blister problems hold up?
-How will Beckett do pitching in the AL?
-How will Beckett do after leaving a pitcher's park that he's pitched in his whole career?


If I were Sox fans I'd be excited because he's young, throws hard, and has destroyed the Yanks.... but its gonna be interesting to see how he fares here.



And what was the story on this Anibal Sanchez kid?

[ILLCHILL]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

Pending phsycials. This is bliss. Lowell is if anything an upgrade over one of the most consistent players we've hadf the last couple years. Beckett is a future ace and a number 2 starter right now.

Two question...

Who is making these moves for the Sox?

Is Wade Miller expected to pitch next year?

[ILLCHILL]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

For all those who wanted info on Sanchez, here hit is courtesy of Soxpropsects.com

Scouting Report: Sanchez was raised around a lot of pro players while growing up in Venezuela. Throws a two-seam and a four-seam fastball that tops out in the mid-90s with excellent control. Also throws an excellent deceptive changeup and a consistently improving curve. Good confidence and poise on the mound. Previously experienced nerve problems in his throwing arm, which he has seemingly now fully recovered from. Learned English quickly. Front-of-the rotation potential.



Here is the man we were going to include but wisely decided not to, Jon Lester....

Scouting Report: Very athletic lefty. 2-seam and 4-seam fastballs sit in the low 90's, top out in the mid-90s, and have good movement. Lester also utilizes an above-average change-up, an 11-to-5 curveball which sits in the low 70s, and in 2005 worked on developing a cutter. Easy delivery motion with good explosion, similar to Andy Pettitte. Power strikeout pitcher, uses his fastball and occasionally his curve as his out pitch. While Lester typically has top notch control, occasionally he will have games where his control of certain pitchers is off. Very hard worker, prepares will for each game. Has also been compared to Mark Mulder. Great pickoff move.


Also, here is the other highly touted prospect, Hanley.....

Scouting Report: Athletic five-tool shortstop with great instincts, above average speed, and all-star potential. Makes excellent contact. Very good range with a top-notch arm. Displays power potential, but the numbers have yet to show it. Had some disciplinary problems earlier in his career, many of which have been attributed to dealing with a great deal of hype and earlier immaturity. Has been a model citizen in recent seasons. Almost all reports have listed Ramirez as the #1 prospect in the organization for years now - he signed at the age of sixteen. It has also been said that Hanley enjoys playing in front of large crowds, which actually has been reflected in his stats. He loves playing the game and almost always wears a smile on his face. He has adjusted well at nearly every level, improving his game preparation and self discipline annually. He has the tools and abilities to switch to center field or third base down the line. Highest ceiling in organization.

[Misfit]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

Anytime you can trade young, unproven talent for a 25 year old former World Series MVP you do it. Hanley regressed this past season and some in the organization were having doubts about him. Couple that with the emergence of second base prospect Dustin Pedroia and Ramirez became expendable. Renteria will be the shortstop for the next three years so they won't miss Ramirez much. He could be a great player and possesses a lot of raw talent, but Beckett is a proven ace.

Nolan Ryan had blister problems early in his career too. Beckett's don't worry me much. He hasn't had problems with his elbow or serious problems with his shoulder so that's a good sign. Some writers are comparing this to the Pedro Martinez deal of 1997, I think they're a little overexcited. Beckett is good, but he isn't coming off a Cy Young season where he posted a 1.90 ERA. Beckett's really young and has some great stuff, he should be good for awhile even if he isn't as good as Pedro.

Beckett is the best pitcher anyone could aquire this offseason, so the Red Sox have done well already. Burnett is older and isn't as good and will cost more and Millwood doesn't compare to Beckett in terms of youth and stuff. I'm very happy that the Red Sox were able to keep Jon Lester, as he's the guy I'm most excited for in their system. Now if they just keep Manny they'll be the team to beat in the AL East next year.

[ILLCHILL]

Re: Red Sox/Marlins Potential Trade

I am reading Bill Simmons thoghts on it now, which I suggest everyone to do as he is one of the few sportswriters worth reading still.


His point number one makes sense but I would call Papi more of a Yankee Killer than Beckett.

Number 5 where he says Beckett gives middle finger to Sox is priceless.

Number 6 is great when he says the Marlins were too cheap to grab real doctor for his blisters, and he has a great point with the Paplebon statement.