Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

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  • Lintyfresh85
    Where have I been?
    • Jul 2002
    • 17492

    #31
    Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

    I always thought the injury he had in his breakout year is what doomed him... maybe a change of scenery is what C-Pat really needed.
    http://flotn.blogspot.com

    Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

    Originally posted by trobinson97
    Hell, I shot my grandmother, cuz she was old.

    Comment

    • BunnyHardaway
      Banned
      • Nov 2004
      • 15195

      #32
      Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

      What a steal this guy was. Leads the league in stolen bases and he's hitting around .290. I still think he needs to shorten his swing, but he's been really good so far.

      Comment

      • rubisco43
        All Star
        • Feb 2003
        • 4372

        #33
        Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

        Imagine how good he could be if he knew how to take a walk once in a while.
        http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=805002

        Comment

        • dieselboy
          --------------
          • Dec 2002
          • 18040

          #34
          Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

          Patterson has been great. In the OS fantasy league, I picked up Patterson on May 23, exactly a month ago. And over the last month his numbers look like this:

          .280, 18 R, 4 HR, 12 RBI, 16 SB

          Great great numbers. If he keeps this pace up, he will finish the year with:

          .289, 89 R, 19 HR, 68 RBI, 68 SB

          Looks like he is really figuring it out these days. He still needs to learn that he is not expected to be a 30+ HR guy like he and a lot of people thought he would become. He needs to use his best asset, his speed. Bunt a little, just get the ball in play to help your team. So what do the Orioles do with him? He is 26 years old and having a seaso a lot of people expected from him in 2005. Do they trade him and get some prospects? (I'm unsure how many years he has left on his contract).

          I think Patterson would be great as a leadoff guy. Sure his OBP is only .332 this season, but he can succeed for other reasons. I think he is in that Jose Reyes/Alfonso Soriano leadoff mold where, they go to the plate being very aggressive. Consider the fact that Patterson has great ability to get extra base hits, whether its HRs, 2Bs, or 3Bs, he has the pop in his bat and the speed to make that happen. Plus, consider his stealing ability, not only this season, but he has a 81% career stealing success rate.

          Also remember, that now with Patterson hitting in the 6th, 7th and 8th spot he often has hitters such as Jeff Conine (.226), Luis Matos (.209), Kevin Millar (.247), and Nick Markakis (.228) hitting behind him. Yes, the Orioles do have Brian Roberts at leadoff, so maybe put Patterson at the #2 slot.

          Comment

          • rubisco43
            All Star
            • Feb 2003
            • 4372

            #35
            Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

            Originally posted by dieselboy
            Patterson has been great. In the OS fantasy league, I picked up Patterson on May 23, exactly a month ago. And over the last month his numbers look like this:

            .280, 18 R, 4 HR, 12 RBI, 16 SB

            Great great numbers. If he keeps this pace up, he will finish the year with:

            .289, 89 R, 19 HR, 68 RBI, 68 SB

            Looks like he is really figuring it out these days. He still needs to learn that he is not expected to be a 30+ HR guy like he and a lot of people thought he would become. He needs to use his best asset, his speed. Bunt a little, just get the ball in play to help your team. So what do the Orioles do with him? He is 26 years old and having a seaso a lot of people expected from him in 2005. Do they trade him and get some prospects? (I'm unsure how many years he has left on his contract).

            I think Patterson would be great as a leadoff guy. Sure his OBP is only .332 this season, but he can succeed for other reasons. I think he is in that Jose Reyes/Alfonso Soriano leadoff mold where, they go to the plate being very aggressive. Consider the fact that Patterson has great ability to get extra base hits, whether its HRs, 2Bs, or 3Bs, he has the pop in his bat and the speed to make that happen. Plus, consider his stealing ability, not only this season, but he has a 81% career stealing success rate.

            Also remember, that now with Patterson hitting in the 6th, 7th and 8th spot he often has hitters such as Jeff Conine (.226), Luis Matos (.209), Kevin Millar (.247), and Nick Markakis (.228) hitting behind him. Yes, the Orioles do have Brian Roberts at leadoff, so maybe put Patterson at the #2 slot.
            I like him at the bottom half of the order. Strikes out too much to be a #2. doesn't get on base enough to be a #1.
            http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=805002

            Comment

            • dieselboy
              --------------
              • Dec 2002
              • 18040

              #36
              Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

              Originally posted by rubisco43
              I like him at the bottom half of the order. Strikes out too much to be a #2. doesn't get on base enough to be a #1.
              Ya, when I think about it, I really don't like him at #2 either.

              But I don't think the fact that he doesn't get on base enough is that big of a deal. Look at how good Jose Reyes is doing.

              Comment

              • dalnet22
                Banned
                • Jul 2004
                • 770

                #37
                Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

                Originally posted by dieselboy
                Ya, when I think about it, I really don't like him at #2 either.

                But I don't think the fact that he doesn't get on base enough is that big of a deal. Look at how good Jose Reyes is doing.
                ?? It's been obvious his whole career based on split stats and just watching him that Patterson should hit no better than 6th in the lineup. Anyone for a single game who thought Patterson could lead off or hit 2nd needs to stop watching baseball.

                Comment

                • rubisco43
                  All Star
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 4372

                  #38
                  Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

                  Originally posted by dieselboy
                  Ya, when I think about it, I really don't like him at #2 either.

                  But I don't think the fact that he doesn't get on base enough is that big of a deal. Look at how good Jose Reyes is doing.
                  I'm not sure I understand your argument regarding Reyes. He's doing well BECAUSE he's getting on base (obp right now is .350 which is 37 points above his career average). Plus, he has Beltran, Delgado, and Wright, all of whom are on pace to drive in 120-140 runs this year.
                  http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=805002

                  Comment

                  • dieselboy
                    --------------
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 18040

                    #39
                    Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

                    Originally posted by dalnet22
                    ?? It's been obvious his whole career based on split stats and just watching him that Patterson should hit no better than 6th in the lineup. Anyone for a single game who thought Patterson could lead off or hit 2nd needs to stop watching baseball.
                    How do you figure?

                    If you exclude the 2005 season, one in which Patterson was clearly pressing at the plate, he has put up decent numbers in the #1 spot, (.267 AVG, and .315 OBP).

                    An from the 6th and 7th spots, career, he has a .303 and .330 OBP, respectively. From the 8th and 9th, (.247 and .221)

                    Plus, like I said before his ability to get extra base hits and steal bases make it OK that his OBP is far from stellar. Think about how much more pop he has in his bat compared to someone like David Eckstein, who has an .OBP of .377. Look at the fact that Eckstein has a career slugging percentage of .363, while Patterson's this season is .450 (and he has done higher before). Plus, consider the fact that someone like Eckstein, will only steal around 15 bags a year, while if Patterson were hitting at this pace in the leadoff spot, with more plate appearences, he could swipe upwards of 80 bases this season alone.

                    Granted, this is all relative to if Patterson were hitting like this in the leadoff spot.

                    Comment

                    • dieselboy
                      --------------
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 18040

                      #40
                      Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

                      Originally posted by rubisco43
                      I'm not sure I understand your argument regarding Reyes. He's doing well BECAUSE he's getting on base (obp right now is .350 which is 37 points above his career average). Plus, he has Beltran, Delgado, and Wright, all of whom are on pace to drive in 120-140 runs this year.
                      Yes, Reyes has a better OBP than Patterson, but I'm not saying that he would do as well as Reyes or better, just on a similar level of style.

                      Reyes probably won't have an OBP of .350 at the end of the year, but it will definately be higher than his .313 career average. But what makes Reyes so dangerous is that not only does hit for a large number of doubles and triples, (something Patterson could do in the leadoff spot), but his base stealing ability allows him to be immediately in scoring position. (For example, if he gets a single or takes a walk, and then steals a base that is essentially a "double". Also, if he is on second, he can get to third on a lot of plays that slower players would not be able to.)

                      And, with Patterson on first base, threating to steal at any moment, that makes every single player who is at the plate, that much better because the entire defense is thinking about him. (Pitchers and catchers worry/call certain pitches, defenses get into different depths, etc.)

                      And don't forget, with Patterson just being so fast on the base paths, he can score in a lot more situations than most other players. For example, Eckstein has one of the worst scoring percentages when he gets on base, amongst leadoff hitters. Just because you have a big OBP doesn't mean you are going to score a lot of runs, no matter how good your offense is behind you.
                      Last edited by dieselboy; 06-23-2006, 08:25 PM.

                      Comment

                      • 1hotballa
                        Rookie
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 361

                        #41
                        Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

                        Originally posted by dieselboy
                        Just because you have a big OBP doesn't mean you are going to score a lot of runs, no matter how good your offense is behind you.

                        Are you kidding?

                        Comment

                        • dalnet22
                          Banned
                          • Jul 2004
                          • 770

                          #42
                          Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

                          Originally posted by dieselboy
                          How do you figure?

                          If you exclude the 2005 season, one in which Patterson was clearly pressing at the plate, he has put up decent numbers in the #1 spot, (.267 AVG, and .315 OBP).

                          An from the 6th and 7th spots, career, he has a .303 and .330 OBP, respectively. From the 8th and 9th, (.247 and .221)

                          Plus, like I said before his ability to get extra base hits and steal bases make it OK that his OBP is far from stellar. Think about how much more pop he has in his bat compared to someone like David Eckstein, who has an .OBP of .377. Look at the fact that Eckstein has a career slugging percentage of .363, while Patterson's this season is .450 (and he has done higher before). Plus, consider the fact that someone like Eckstein, will only steal around 15 bags a year, while if Patterson were hitting at this pace in the leadoff spot, with more plate appearences, he could swipe upwards of 80 bases this season alone.

                          Granted, this is all relative to if Patterson were hitting like this in the leadoff spot.
                          The thing is, I would rather see a .303 obp in the 7th spot than a .315 obp, strike-out power hitter leading off.

                          Comment

                          • dieselboy
                            --------------
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 18040

                            #43
                            Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

                            Originally posted by dalnet22
                            The thing is, I would rather see a .303 obp in the 7th spot than a .315 obp, strike-out power hitter leading off.
                            I understand what you mean. But I think this season Patterson has started to show what he could potentialy do at the top of the lineup.

                            But, it wouldn't fit for the Orioles, because they already have a great leadoff guy in Roberts. But on another team, I think Patterson could flourish in the role.

                            Originally posted by 1hotballa
                            Are you kidding?
                            No. Look at those big slow guys with huge OBPs. Does Giambi have a high scoring rate? No.

                            Comment

                            • 1hotballa
                              Rookie
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 361

                              #44
                              Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

                              Originally posted by dieselboy
                              .



                              No. Look at those big slow guys with huge OBPs. Does Giambi have a high scoring rate? No.
                              Out of the top 40 guys in runs scored, only 4 of them have a OBP under .340. Giambi is also 42 in runs scored in ALL OF BASEBALL. Gosh, he doesnt score enough. Could it be the fact that he was hitting ahead of a month long struggling Alex Rodriguez? Whoever told you that getting on base does not lead to runs is a idiot. You cannot score runs if people dont knock you in. Your statment is 100% wrong and all you can do is say that Giambi has a huge OBP but doesnt have a huge scoring rate? WTF, what if he didnt have a high OBP, would he score the same amount of runs? Would he score more? I dont think so. Saying a large OBP doesnt lead to a large amount of runs is stupid. Let me guess what your thinking is, a guy who has a higher batting average scores more runs than a guy with a high OBP? If that is your thinking, your wrong again.

                              Out of the top 10 runs leaders, ONLY 2 have a BA over .300, but guess what, only 1 of them has a OBP LOWER than .360.



                              And how come the lowest OBP guys have scored so many less runs than the high OBP guys?



                              Tell you what, I will go even one further for you. How come the teams that have scored the most runs this season have higher OBP's than the lower run scoring teams? HMMMMMMM





                              Whats next, SLG doesnt show how much power sombody has? Before you make a stupid comment like that, make sure you have some evidence to support your statement.

                              Comment

                              • gcurrier2004
                                Rookie
                                • Oct 2004
                                • 179

                                #45
                                Re: Orioles acquire Patterson from Cubs

                                Originally posted by dieselboy
                                Just because you have a big OBP doesn't mean you are going to score a lot of runs, no matter how good your offense is behind you.

                                And a rash doesnt cause itching...

                                Comment

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