2006 HOF class

[Vince]

Re: 2006 HOF class

I know I said this before, but it really baffles me how Kirby Puckett gets in, but others with similar or better numbers are left out.

I know Ken Rosenthal mentioned last year that he voted for Kirb because of the numbers he though he would've ammassed had he not been injured, but he later said that if he had to do it again, he wouldn't be in.

I also use Kirby as a measure to how if he gets in, it's really unfair that guys like Rice and Dawson are left out.

[redskinrussell]

Re: 2006 HOF class

Donnie Baseball is my favorite player of all time and I think he should get in because Puckett is in, but he will have to wait a long time. One thing that worries me is that his voting percentage is going down each year. I was also a little bummed to see that Willie McGee will no longer be on the ballot. He did not deserve to be in but was a hell of a ball player. If I had a vote I would have put Sutter, Hawk, Goose, Blyleven, Morris, Rice, Murphy and Mattingly in.

[redskinrussell]

Re: 2006 HOF class

I know Ken Rosenthal mentioned last year that he voted for Kirb because of the numbers he though he would've ammassed had he not been injured.

I wonder if he also voted for Gooden for the stats he would have put up if he didnt become a coke head.

[Stu]

Re: 2006 HOF class

I know I said this before, but it really baffles me how Kirby Puckett gets in, but others with similar or better numbers are left out.

I know Ken Rosenthal mentioned last year that he voted for Kirb because of the numbers he though he would've ammassed had he not been injured, but he later said that if he had to do it again, he wouldn't be in.

I also use Kirby as a measure to how if he gets in, it's really unfair that guys like Rice and Dawson are left out.

I agree. Kirby does not deserve to be in. I'm glad the HOF committee recognizes their mistake rather than using his numbers as a benchmark for future inductees.

The main question will always be the same however. How do you judge a guy like Jim Rice who put up outstanding numbers in a short career against a guy like Yaz, for example, who played a lot of years at a lower level.

Obviously Yaz deserves to be in, but Rice could have put up the same type of career numbers if he hadn't immediately retired when he started to decline. How can you punish a guy who decides to retire rather than play at a lower skill level?

[SportsTop]

Re: 2006 HOF class

Donnie Baseball is my favorite player of all time and I think he should get in because Puckett is in, but he will have to wait a long time. One thing that worries me is that his voting percentage is going down each year. I was also a little bummed to see that Willie McGee will no longer be on the ballot. He did not deserve to be in but was a hell of a ball player. If I had a vote I would have put Sutter, Hawk, Goose, Blyleven, Morris, Rice, Murphy and Mattingly in.

Mattingly has too many cards stacked against him. The lack of a championship, his short career, and short (in comparison) timeframe in which he was an upper tier performer at his position all hurt him. Not to mention the fact that he'll also be punished (statistically speaking) for the fact that over half of his career took place in the steroid era. It sucks that his numbers will get compared to others that were juicing....but that is the world we live in.

[SPTO]

Re: 2006 HOF class

Interesting comment.

Was he any more "good but not great" than Tony Perez? (Other than the fact that Rice has an MVP Award and over triple Perez's MVP shares).


Rice was a BEAST for over ten consecutive years. His numbers may seem watered down compared to today's numbers, but put in perspective, they are second to none.

Well keep in mind Perez was a Vets committee choice NOT the baseball writers. Maybe Rice will have to wait til then.

[SPTO]

Re: 2006 HOF class

I hate to make back to back posts but I just found this:

Former closer Rich "Goose" Gossage isn't too happy that he failed to win election into baseball's Hall of Fame, according to a report in the New York Post.

Gossage received 336 votes, which is short of the 390 needed for election. The former right-hander finished behind fellow closer Bruce Sutter, who won election by getting 400 votes, and former slugger Jim Rice who got 337 votes.

"I just don't get it," a frustrated Gossage told The Post from Colorado on Tuesday. "I'm at a loss for words."

Gossage, a former Yankees' fireballer, seems angry that he failed to get into the Hall of Fame despite the fact that he has, among other things, more career saves, victories, and strikeouts (948) than Sutter.

"I just can't believe Sutter got in before me," Gossage added."He deserved it. I was hoping Sutter and I could go in together. ... I don't know if I ever will make it."

"You know what, I never hear from these guys who don't vote for me," Gossage said. "But I'll take on any writer, anywhere, on any show, and I will bury him."

Gossage also feels badly for peers such as Rice, Andre Dawson and Bert Blyleven — all of whom were left on the outside looking in.

The "Goose's" feelings concerning Rice's snub were particularly strong as he called it a "joke" that the Twins' Kirby Puckett was elected on the first ballot. Rice meanwhile is now 0-for-12 in Hall entry attempts.

"If Jim Rice had played in the Metrodome, he would have torn the place down, and that's nothing against Kirby Puckett, that's just the way it is," Gossage said.

What's more, Gossage often pitched two or three innings to earn his saves, and he says comparing him to current closers such as Trevor Hoffman or Mariano Rivera is like comparing apples to oranges.

"The job is so easy because they're only pitching one inning," Gossage said. "Writers have forgotten how the role has changed."

And don't get him started on Barry Bonds and other allegedly drug-enhanced sluggers we watch now.

"Hitting in a game is no different than hitting in a home run contest," Gossage said. "It [ticks] me off to say Barry Bonds is the greatest hitter. He's playing in a wussy era. The game is soft. You never get thrown at today. Last thing a hitter has to worry about today is getting hit. The first thing Hank Aaron had to worry about is: Am I going to survive this at-bat because I'm black."

link

[Kashanova]

Re: 2006 HOF class

if i were voting i would have

sutten, goose, rice, mattingly in and how come albert belle gets no love this guy was a monster

[SportsTop]

Re: 2006 HOF class

if i were voting i would have

sutten, goose, rice, mattingly in and how come albert belle gets no love this guy was a monster

Corked bats
Steroids
0 MVP Awards
0 Championships
Played in an inflated stats era
Attitude

Need I go on?

[SportsTop]

Re: 2006 HOF class

Well keep in mind Perez was a Vets committee choice NOT the baseball writers. Maybe Rice will have to wait til then.

Check again SPTO. Perez was a BBWAA inductee.

We can thank the Veteran's Committee for other questionable choices like Mazeroski and Rizzuto, but that is another debate.

[SPTO]

Re: 2006 HOF class

Check again SPTO. Perez was a BBWAA inductee.

We can thank the Veteran's Committee for other questionable choices like Mazeroski and Rizzuto, but that is another debate.

Hmm Ok sorry for that mix up I was under the false impression that it was the vets. Thanks for the correction.

[caseyd]

Re: 2006 HOF class

It floors me that so many people buy into the media's hype of Jack Morris. The guy was a good pitcher, no doubt, but he has been almost deified by one game.

Morris was quite average for the Blue Jays in the World Series right after that. In fact, he lost Game 1 to Glavine and Game 5 to Smoltz and had a series era of 8.44. In the 1987 ALCS, his ERA was 6.75. In the 1991 ALCS it was 4.05. In the 1992 ALCS it was 6.57.

In 6 ALCS starts for his career, his ERA was 4.87. In 3 World Series' it was 2.96. Overall, in the playoffs, in 13 starts his ERA was 3.80.

As someone else said, his career ERA during the regular season was 3.90 and that would be the highest of any HOFer. His 254 wins are impressive, but how anyone can even attempt to make an argument that he deserves to be in before Bert Blyleven or Tommy John is beyond me.

Don't even get me started on how guys like Dave Concepcion, Steve Garvey, or Orel Hershiser continue to get more votes than Murphy.

[SPTO]

Re: 2006 HOF class

Don't even get me started on how guys like Dave Concepcion, Steve Garvey, or Orel Hershiser continue to get more votes than Murphy.

First let me say I want Morris in but Blyleven should be in there as well.

As for Dale Murphy I heard an interview with one of the baseball writers in Toronto. This guy used to work for the Expos and he related that Murphy was a bit of a jerk. He would cause problems in that he didn't want women reporters in the locker rooms and other such stuff.

I dunno if that's one of the things affecting him but it can't help either.

[caseyd]

Re: 2006 HOF class

First let me say I want Morris in but Blyleven should be in there as well.

As for Dale Murphy I heard an interview with one of the baseball writers in Toronto. This guy used to work for the Expos and he related that Murphy was a bit of a jerk. He would cause problems in that he didn't want women reporters in the locker rooms and other such stuff.

I dunno if that's one of the things affecting him but it can't help either.

I don't know where people come up with stuff like this.

LOL..Murphy was always known as probably the nicest guy in baseball. He asked that women reporters wait until the guys were dressed if they wanted to do interviews. According to the women reporters themselves, he was never rude about it. Trust me, I highly doubt that's affecting his votes. I've never heard anyone say a negative thing about Murphy. In fact most media, announcers, etc. will go out of their way to talk about just the opposite. He has written a book for athletes called "Scouting Report" that has gotten rave reviews and indicates the kind of person he is and the difference he wants to make in the lives and careers of younger athletes. I freely admit that he's a borderline case for the vote, but he deserves to get more votes than some of these other guys.