Coco Crisp to Boston....

[CWood2]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

But they are all still question marks. Yes they could contribute but how does that help us this year? The Red Sox aren't an organization that builds through the minor leagues. To them, position prospects are bargaining chips (Marte) or cheap alternatives that allow you to spend money elsewhere (Youkilis, Pedroia, etc).

I'm not trying to take away from their potential but like I said in my previous posts, when I'm given a choice between potential and proven ML ability, I'll take the proven player every time.

I understand what you're saying and I understand how the Sox do business. I guess the question is this...Could we get more for Andy Marte, Guillermo Mota, a pitching prospect, and $11 mil? I've already voiced my answer, and my opposition is mainly to what I just said as opposed to the potential/proven argument...even though that's too broad of a concept to run any organization.

[CWood2]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

This feels like a pickup game of 2 on 2!! No hard feelings guys, I guess we agree to disagree...atleast we all like Coco

EDIT: at the risk of sounding unoriginal, here's rotoworld's take, which could only be better put if they listed A-Gon's league worst OBP...

"It’s a sequence of events that may placate the media, but that doesn’t make it any less disturbing. Marte alone is worth more than Crisp, in our opinion, just as he was worth quite a bit more than Edgar Renteria. The Red Sox are giving up Guillermo Mota, too, and it's unclear what they'll be getting back along with Crisp. Gonzalez is an even bigger problem, especially if it's a multiyear deal. He's not much of an upgrade over Alex Cora, and Dustin Pedroia might be Boston's best option at shortstop by June 1." -- 1.22.06, Rotoworld

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

This feels like a pickup game of 2 on 2!! No hard feelings guys, I guess we agree to disagree...atleast we all like Coco

EDIT: at the risk of sounding unoriginal, here's rotoworld's take, which could only be better put if they listed A-Gon's league worst OBP...

Touche on Crisp. However, isn't some of his value found in the fact that he is fast and can steal bases? (On my roto team it was!). Isn't this value somewhat mitigated by the fact that he'd be playing for Boston, who never, ever runs? This somewhat worries me. If we get him, and bat him 2nd, I really think he needs to be sent more frequently than they sent runners in 2005. I'm really tired of seeing a 1-9 station to station beer league team, but that's really a different argument altogether now...

[Stu]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

I'm really tired of seeing a 1-9 station to station beer league team, but that's really a different argument altogether now...

You may want to start looking for a new team

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Red Sox batted Crisp lower in the lineup. Part of Damon's value was obviously his ability to see a lot of pitches and get on base before Ortiz and Manny came up. Crisp however, is more of a free swinger and doesn't walk all that much. If this deal goes through, I could see them batting Youkilis 1st, Loretta 2nd and Crisp either 5th or 6th.

One great thing about Crisp is his ability to hit from both sides. His OPS in the last 3 years is .760 vs RH and .761 vs LH. That type of consistency should help in a bottom half of the order that has guys like Nixon and Varitek who have drastically different splits against LH and RH starters.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Just reported by Gordon Edes on Sports Final TV show here:

Coco Crisp
Josh Bard
David Riske

Andy Marte
Guillermo Mota
Kelly Shoppach

Just heard it from his mouth; he's the beat writer for the Boston Globe. I think this changes things a bit IMO. The prospect of acquiring Riske intrigues me quite a bit. Bard is very interesting to me, as well. Primarily because I do not like the prospect of seeing John Flaherty, Ken Huckaby, or Shoppach hitting creating another black hole during Wakefield starts.
I need to swallow all this beore further commenting...

[CWood2]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Just reported by Gordon Edes on Sports Final TV show here:

Coco Crisp
Josh Bard
David Riske

Andy Marte
Guillermo Mota
Kelly Shoppach

So much for a pitching prospect and two low level minor leaguers...

This is NOT what I expected, especially considering the 4 "other" guys in the deal are basically replacing one another at the same position. Something about seeing Riske's name makes me think he could be spun somewhere else. I'd gladly throw in Trot and Clement for Abreu,...yikes, I need sleep!!

[Misfit]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Interesting...

Riske and Bard being added certainly is intruguing. Bard gives the Sox a back-up for Varitek who has more upside than Flaherty. He isn't flashy but he'll do. Hopefully he can catch a knuckleball. Riske was fantastic last year. His ERA was solid, but his WHIP was less than 1 which is really impressive. He's probably more consistent than Mota, and more durable (just don't put him in the closer's role). He has a track record of being tough on lefties which helps as well (though when they hit him they slug at over .450). I'm really surprised the Indians would have any interest in swapping him for Mota, but perhaps the Phillies said they wanted Mota for Michaels?

Shoppach was never going to get a chance to start for the Red Sox because of Varitek so it was only a matter of time before he was dealt. Plus his stock seemed to keep dropping further and further...though it is surprising the Indians would have any interest in him given the fact that they have Martinez behind the plate.

[Stu]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

I have to be honest, I liked the trade to begin with but this just makes it even better. Riske has been very good over the last 3 years and I'd much rather have him in our pen rather than Mota.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Enjoy Riske Boston. He's about as inconsistant as they come.

I look at this deal and see on thing, dollar signs. We traded away money to get prospects and cheaper players. Good ol' Dolan.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Enjoy Riske Boston. He's about as inconsistant as they come.

I look at this deal and see on thing, dollar signs. We traded away money to get prospects and cheaper players. Good ol' Dolan.

Uhh...

You do realize that you would be receiving the best player in the deal, correct? I should amend that. The player with the most potential. It's clear that Shapiro has woody for Marte, and is very high on him. When Marte is clubbing 30 HR's at 3B for you guys in a year or two, instead of Casey Blake or whomever was there last year, you'll probably change your tune. Given that Cleveland and Boston are proxy-divison rivals now (Wild Card), this is somewhat concerning to me.

[Stu]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Enjoy Riske Boston. He's about as inconsistant as they come.

I look at this deal and see on thing, dollar signs. We traded away money to get prospects and cheaper players. Good ol' Dolan.

Looking at his game log last year he was pretty consistent other than a terrible June. He also reduced his walks from 41 in 2004 to 15 last year. He's prone to the longball, but I'll still take him over Mota who is a huge question mark at this point.

His ER by month:
April - 0
May - 5
June - 9
July - 3
Aug - 3
Sept - 5

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Uhh...

You do realize that you would be receiving the best player in the deal, correct? I should amend that. The player with the most potential. It's clear that Shapiro has woody for Marte, and is very high on him. When Marte is clubbing 30 HR's at 3B for you guys in a year or two, instead of Casey Blake or whomever was there last year, you'll probably change your tune. Given that Cleveland and Boston are proxy-divison rivals now (Wild Card), this is somewhat concerning to me.

All the talk in Cleveland is that Marte is going to play OF for us.

Even at 3rd, we did this once. The best player in the minors a few years ago was Brandon Phillips. Guess where he's still at?

[INeedShades]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Where are Peralta, Hafner, Martinez, Lee, Sizemore, and Cabrera at? Phillips was hyped because he had all the tools and has yet to put it together at AAA.

Marte put together a year that nearly matched Peralta's 2004 when he won the IL MVP, not to mention the fact that he was the youngest player in the league. Further, his league managers have named him the best defensive 3b for like the fourth year running. He could probably start right now and put up a 260/340/460 line. Please don't compare him to Phillips.

[Lintyfresh85]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Yeah, Phillips is a head case. Marte is gonna be a star for us. I personally can't wait to see him play for the Tribe.

[bjf1377]

Re: Boston to trade Marte and Mota for Crisp

Uhh...

You do realize that you would be receiving the best player in the deal, correct? I should amend that. The player with the most potential. It's clear that Shapiro has woody for Marte, and is very high on him. When Marte is clubbing 30 HR's at 3B for you guys in a year or two, instead of Casey Blake or whomever was there last year, you'll probably change your tune. Given that Cleveland and Boston are proxy-divison rivals now (Wild Card), this is somewhat concerning to me.

It isn't necessarily the players involved that are the problem, its the motivation behind the trade. We would have to pay Crisp a fair amount of money in 2009. What people fail to realize outside of Cleveland is that Dolan really does not like to spend money at all. Since he took over, the salary has literally been cut in half. If it wasn't for the good farm system, we'd be horrible because he just doesn't want to spend money on anyone. So when 2009 rolled around, Dolan would likely just let him go because why keep an expensive proven player when you can have cheap prospects.