Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

[sportsdude]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

Is a blind, ******** monkey running the Cincinnati front office?

Eh, this isn't as bad as you think. Wily Mo strikes out a ton, doesn't walk nearly as much as Dunn, and he's a liability in the field. Additionally, he's put on more weight this offseason, so a good CF he is not.

Also, Cincy needs pitching, plain and simple. Arroyo pitched decently against very good batters from the AL East and in a small park, similar to Cincy's. I know Wily Mo has 50-60 HR potential, but he also has 200 strikeout, .245 batting average potential.

Dunn already strikes out and hits for low average as is, the Reds don't need two identical OFs.

[mjb2124]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

Let's just keep the name calling out of this.

Maybe it wasn't meant in the wrong way, but it certainly read that way.

Thanks.

[sportsdude]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

Let's just keep the name calling out of this.

Maybe it wasn't meant in the wrong way, but it certainly read that way.

Thanks.

So let me something straight here....one guy is mad because the other guy called us morons?

I wasn't offended. I mean personally, I have been called much worse on the Internet than a moron, I think that one dude needs to learn some sensitivity or something.

[Thrasha]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

Nice job picking two words out of my entire post and calling the whole thing "uncalled for"!

If you can't take a little insult that doesn't really mean ANYTHING, that I don't even mean as an insult but as a "what are you thinking?" kind of comment, then please don't blow it out of proportion.

I wasn't offended, I think some of the guys in charge should lighten up a bit. I've read worse on here anyway.

That's not what I was saying. I'm sure they realize he has potential if they traded Arroyo for him. I'm saying that Mo Pena himself has VERY LITTLE CHANCE of realizing HIS potential before the Sox trade him/his contract is up. He's had apoor AVG the past two years...you really expect him to go from that to .300 just like that? Because that's what the Red Sox want...and when they don't get it, he's probably going to be gone.

Sorry for mis-understanding your original statement. I for one don't expect .300. Some of the people coming in here expecting Papi #2 are more offensive to me than being called a moron. I hate the over-valuing of talent that some people show for their favorite teams. Anyway, if he hit .275 - .280 with a better OBP and maintained his power, than that would be absolutely ideal IMO. I'm not expecting anything incredible.

[p2xgamers]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

Is a blind, ******** monkey running the Cincinnati front office?

So it took you over 3 years to realize this?

Sometime the reds are going to realize that improving an aspect of a team doesn't mean to also ruin the other. (notice all the great batters they have gotten rid of...for mediocore pitching) Oh well.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

Agreed. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw everyone complaining about this trade for the REDS? The Reds got the edge, you morons! How is Arroyo so underrated? The guy has won something like 14 games a year for the past few years in Boston, in one of the smallest frickin' parks in the majors. Now he's going to a similar, but probably MUCH larger park, and he's supposed to be sub par?

I think Arroyo is a good #3 starting pitcher, but you are simply spreading false information with this post.

In 2005, Cincinatti's Great American Ballpark scored a 106 for batters and a 105 for pitchers on the baseballreference.com park index. Essentially, this means GAB played as a park friendly for hitting.
In 2005, Fenway Park scored as a 101 for both hitters and pitchers. This means Fenway basically played neutral for both sides.

Your claim that Arroyo should improve because of switching ballparks is unfounded. He may certainly improve by switching leagues, or seeing new hitters, or for some other reason, but to me the ballpark reason holds no water.

pwned.

[Misfit]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

Arroyo will NEVER win 18 games. And if he does it will be a season along the lines of Washburn's 2002 campaign where it was more a case of luck and good fortune than anything else. He can't control his fastball and relies too much on breaking stuff. Lefties tee-off on him and he isn't a groundball pitcher, as some have assumed, as only 40% of batted balls against him last season were hit on the ground. He's always going to be around the league average in terms of ERA with a WHIP between 1.20 and 1.30. He won 14 games last year because of the Boston offense, which is why he also lost 10. Certainly a team can do a lot worse than sending Bronson Arroyo out there every fifth day but he is what he is, and that's a league average innings-eater. He's better than pretty much anyone they have now (Harang was the only Cinci starter to post a better VORP than Arroyo last year, albeit a much better one) and he'll give them a chance to win since their offense has a chance to repeat as number 1 in the NL. The Reds did good in this trade because they got what they needed and traded from a surplus to get it. They know what to expect from Arroyo, and chances are they'll get it, while Pena is still an unknown. He could be great and he could be awful. Both teams come out winners here.

Pena will be in Boston for at least 2 years. He's expected to just be a 4th outfielder in 2006 and they just want him to do what he's always done, mash lefties and fill-in occassionally for Manny. They'll likely let Trot Nixon walk after 2006 and give Pena a chance to be the starter in 07.

[Stoud]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

I think Arroyo is a good #3 starting pitcher, but you are simply spreading false information with this post.

In 2005, Cincinatti's Great American Ballpark scored a 106 for batters and a 105 for pitchers on the baseballreference.com park index. Essentially, this means GAB played as a park friendly for hitting.
In 2005, Fenway Park scored as a 101 for both hitters and pitchers. This means Fenway basically played neutral for both sides.

Your claim that Arroyo should improve because of switching ballparks is unfounded. He may certainly improve by switching leagues, or seeing new hitters, or for some other reason, but to me the ballpark reason holds no water.

pwned.

Indeed. IMHO I don't think that's so much of a big difference, 105 and 101, but you still make a valid point. I really didn't expect GAB to be more hitter friendly than Fenway, so that's interesting. Moving from the AL East to anywhere else would probably help his numbers a bit, though; Not to mention he's moving to the NL. Maybe the change won't be as drastic as I was thinking, but I think there will be a noticeable improvement of some kind. Well, I hope so, at least. Cincy needs some help.

I feel like Mo Pena could hit .250-.260 in Fenway, but I'd be suprised if he hit .275-.280. It would be a NICE suprise, though. I guess I see what some people are saying though: Mo Pena is younger and has more promise than Arroyo does all in all. However, I think Cincinatti's need for good pitching, pitching that they know can pitch in a relatively similar park under intense pressure, outweighs this. I totally disagree with people who think Cincinatti made a mistake here, because if you look at their rotation, adding Arroyo is a big difference. I only hope they have some good OF prospects in the minors to take over when some of their outfielders get injured (and they probably will).

I just think it's too soon for Mo Pena to be put on the big stage in the AL East for him to perform the way people want him to. This could do more harm than good. Hopefully he siezes the opportunity, but I just doubt it. Chances are really not that good. That's why I say Boston made the mistake here.

I apologize if I really upset anyone with my comments. Sometimes I can get passionate about sports and I end up saying more than I really want to, more than I really feel. I try to get across the point of my attitude, and sometimes something negative sneaks out. I apologize if anyone was really affected by that.

[Misfit]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

I think Arroyo is a good #3 starting pitcher, but you are simply spreading false information with this post.

In 2005, Cincinatti's Great American Ballpark scored a 106 for batters and a 105 for pitchers on the baseballreference.com park index. Essentially, this means GAB played as a park friendly for hitting.
In 2005, Fenway Park scored as a 101 for both hitters and pitchers. This means Fenway basically played neutral for both sides.

Your claim that Arroyo should improve because of switching ballparks is unfounded. He may certainly improve by switching leagues, or seeing new hitters, or for some other reason, but to me the ballpark reason holds no water.

pwned.

Baseball Prospectus scores the Great American Ballpark as having a park factor of 0.988, slight pitcher's park. Fenway is rated as having a park factor of 1.028, which is described as a moderate hitter's park. So take that for what it's worth.

[Stoud]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

Arroyo will NEVER win 18 games. And if he does it will be a season along the lines of Washburn's 2002 campaign where it was more a case of luck and good fortune than anything else. He can't control his fastball and relies too much on breaking stuff. Lefties tee-off on him and he isn't a groundball pitcher, as some have assumed, as only 40% of batted balls against him last season were hit on the ground. He's always going to be around the league average in terms of ERA with a WHIP between 1.20 and 1.30. He won 14 games last year because of the Boston offense, which is why he also lost 10. Certainly a team can do a lot worse than sending Bronson Arroyo out there every fifth day but he is what he is, and that's a league average innings-eater. He's better than pretty much anyone they have now (Harang was the only Cinci starter to post a better VORP than Arroyo last year, albeit a much better one) and he'll give them a chance to win since their offense has a chance to repeat as number 1 in the NL. The Reds did good in this trade because they got what they needed and traded from a surplus to get it. They know what to expect from Arroyo, and chances are they'll get it, while Pena is still an unknown. He could be great and he could be awful. Both teams come out winners here.

Pena will be in Boston for at least 2 years. He's expected to just be a 4th outfielder in 2006 and they just want him to do what he's always done, mash lefties and fill-in occassionally for Manny. They'll likely let Trot Nixon walk after 2006 and give Pena a chance to be the starter in 07.

Well, I see what you're saying. When I said Arroyo hs the possibility of winning 18, I was kind of thinking along the lines of one of those "once in a lifetime" seasons. Overall I don't expect him to win more than say...16 in a place like Cincinatti. However, if he can do that consistently, it will be good for Cinci. They desperately need good pitching!

[Stu]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

It's time to give the correct guy his dues, and the guy that deserves it is Arroyo. I felt like they could have gotten way m ore than just Mo Pena for Arroyo....Boston dropped the ball on this one.

Good job, Cinci, finally getting some pitching.

You're ignoring the fact that Arroyo would have been a middle reliever for the Red Sox. They still have too many pitchers as it is. They had to trade a starter and Arroyo made the most sense and could get the most in return. I'll trade a middle reliever for Wily Mo Pena any day.

[SlimKibbles]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

I think the trade is fine. We'll wait and see. I trust new GM Wayne Krivsky and the new ownership. They wanted to get pitching. I don't know if Hatteberg is an everyday 1B, but it sounds like Aurilia will be playing there too. Freel should be playing all over the place again. I still don't know what Dan O'Brien saw in Tony Womack.

Anyway, Gamer, no, a blind ******** monkey isn't running the Reds anymore, but I'm sure there are plenty of 'em running the city of Cleveland.

It's spelled Cincinnati, people! Get it right!

[Stu]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

That's not what I was saying. I'm sure they realize he has potential if they traded Arroyo for him. I'm saying that Mo Pena himself has VERY LITTLE CHANCE of realizing HIS potential before the Sox trade him/his contract is up. He's had apoor AVG the past two years...you really expect him to go from that to .300 just like that? Because that's what the Red Sox want...and when they don't get it, he's probably going to be gone.

Not sure when hitting .300 became a requirment to play for the Red Sox. WMP is under the Red Sox control for 3 years, at which point he'll be 27. We should have a pretty good idea of what type of player he'll be by that point. If he turns out well, it's not like the Red Sox are an organization who won't pay him.

No offense, but you clearly don't understand the situations of the players or teams involved in this trade. I think most people, beyond the initial reaction, are in agreement that this trade works well for both teams.

[jake44np]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

I feel sorry for Coco Crisp with Manny on his right and Wily No on his left he will have to cover the whole OF, Wily No is a terrible outfielder!! Good luck with that whole platoon thing too, he griped for the last 2 years platooning with Austin Kearns!
This is a really good trade for the Reds the whole team had grown tired of Wily No, during their game yesterday Marty B. said everyone of the players in the clubhouse where excited about the trade.

[mjb2124]

Re: Red Sox trade Arroyo to Cincy for Willy Mo

So let me something straight here....one guy is mad because the other guy called us morons?

I wasn't offended, I think some of the guys in charge should lighten up a bit. I've read worse on here anyway.

You guys are more than entitled to your opinion, but quite simply, someone referencing other(s) as "morons" isn't acceptable at OS. Like I stated, maybe it wasn't meant in the wrong way, but it's unnaceptable nonetheless.

Chances are if you've read something worse on here, that person was dealt with and took a timeout from the forums. What happens after that is up to the mods/admins.