The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

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  • CWood2
    TNA & WWE thanks you
    • May 2004
    • 4356

    #76
    Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

    Originally posted by BigDofBA
    One name that hasn't been mentioned is Gabe Kapler. I know he isn't really a big name player but he looked like he juiced.
    Not a coincidence that he took off for Japan once testing was announced and came back after getting his system clean (my opinion at least).

    Johnny Damon would not surprise me either, although the dropoff in power wasn't that drastic last year and his durability probably points the other way. He was a lot smaller in KC and Oakland though, and the pressure to win here and get that one big contract before his decline could be a motivator.

    Comment

    • TheMatrix31
      RF
      • Jul 2002
      • 52924

      #77
      Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

      Thanks Kerplunk...I never thought he was--just wondered why he was "automatically passed".

      Comment

      • Hootiefish
        Pro
        • Aug 2002
        • 933

        #78
        Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

        Originally posted by Blzer
        Okay, guys... I hope that most of your beliefs aren't based on size of the player. I'm seeing many posts against or defending players because of growth (or lack thereof) in a player. You see Alex Sanchez, Jeremy Giambi, Benito Santiago, Ryan Franklin, guys like that... they aren't increasing in size. Then, you see guys like Griffey that are, and say that he can't be on steroids. I don't know why players just have some strange reputations or something, but... yeah.


        Anyway, again, I don't believe that Pujols is, but he is definitely not a guy that is out of the question. And I ask again... are we like, NOT allowed to accuse him or something? Is there something pure about him and not Bonds that I'm not seeing (other than growth)?
        Griffey gets the pass because he hasn't even been in good shape. All the guys that you mentioned that tested positive were at least in some kind of shape. Griffey has always been criticized for the shape that he keeps himself in. Also, Griffey's numbers have always stayed consistent. No great jumps in power. You more than anyone else should know that Griffey's power has always been generated by the fluidity of his near-perfect swing.

        As for Pujols, he continues to put up monster numbers since testing began two years ago. No big injuries, no mysterious drops in power, no size change. So yes, he should be without question. Now whether or not he is only 25, I'm not sure.
        Overall satisfaction also makes the decline!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Comment

        • Hootiefish
          Pro
          • Aug 2002
          • 933

          #79
          Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

          Also like to mention that Griffey admitted to strongly considering steroids about the time Bonds started taking them, but said that he couldn't do it and look his children in the eye.
          Overall satisfaction also makes the decline!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Comment

          • Vince
            Bow for Bau
            • Aug 2002
            • 26017

            #80
            Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

            Originally posted by FootballForever
            Yeah, Pujols was his size his is when he came into baseball, Bonds was Skinny nothing then blew up like the hulk, and he did it in his 30's, also Bonds went to hitting a HR every 16 at bats in his NON steriod years, to start hitting a HR every 8 at bats, nuff said.

            Yeah cause we all know it's impossible to get Roids in the minors...

            oops
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            • jim416
              Banned
              • Feb 2003
              • 10606

              #81
              Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

              are we like, NOT allowed to accuse him or something? Is there something pure about him and not Bonds that I'm not seeing (other than growth)?

              Who said Pujols is NOT allowed to be accused? Pure? Well, admittedly one guy is a good guy, the other has been the horses rear end for years, so that might have something to do with opinions.

              My one choice would have to be.........MOST.

              Comment

              • Blzer
                Resident film pundit
                • Mar 2004
                • 42526

                #82
                Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

                Originally posted by Hootiefish
                Griffey gets the pass because he hasn't even been in good shape. All the guys that you mentioned that tested positive were at least in some kind of shape. Griffey has always been criticized for the shape that he keeps himself in. Also, Griffey's numbers have always stayed consistent. No great jumps in power. You more than anyone else should know that Griffey's power has always been generated by the fluidity of his near-perfect swing.

                As for Pujols, he continues to put up monster numbers since testing began two years ago. No big injuries, no mysterious drops in power, no size change. So yes, he should be without question. Now whether or not he is only 25, I'm not sure.
                Well, just so that everybody's aware, steroids does not guarantee you better statistics. That's exactly why I said those four names... not only did they not grow, but they did not improve. Also, I know that I've said this one before... but when Bonds took the "cream" and the "clear" in 2003... it turned out that statistically, 2003 was by far his worst season between 2001 - 2004, and his on-pace for 2005 stats were better also.

                And Pujols... like we've already said, stats may not inflate or whatever. Also, you can question whether he took them when he was in the minor leagues. They certainly are accessible there, too. Probably not so easy to obtain, but you know. Anything's possible. I just find it funny that he seems completely left out of the picture.



                Really... the only proof that we can get that somebody took steroids is either by admitting it or if we have documented or visual aids. Because inflated stats do NOT always happen here, guys. Steroids give you the opportunity to make yourself stronger, not better. Also just remember that they are not magic pills. You do not become a juggernaut overnight. They allow you to be very capable of it, though... which is why they're illegal.
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                • Vince
                  Bow for Bau
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 26017

                  #83
                  Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

                  Originally posted by Blzer
                  Well, just so that everybody's aware, steroids does not guarantee you better statistics. That's exactly why I said those four names... not only did they not grow, but they did not improve. Also, I know that I've said this one before... but when Bonds took the "cream" and the "clear" in 2003... it turned out that statistically, 2003 was by far his worst season between 2001 - 2004, and his on-pace for 2005 stats were better also.

                  And Pujols... like we've already said, stats may not inflate or whatever. Also, you can question whether he took them when he was in the minor leagues. They certainly are accessible there, too. Probably not so easy to obtain, but you know. Anything's possible. I just find it funny that he seems completely left out of the picture.



                  Really... the only proof that we can get that somebody took steroids is either by admitting it or if we have documented or visual aids. Because inflated stats do NOT always happen here, guys. Steroids give you the opportunity to make yourself stronger, not better. Also just remember that they are not magic pills. You do not become a juggernaut overnight. They allow you to be very capable of it, though... which is why they're illegal.

                  Do you still think Bonds never used roids?
                  @ me or dap me

                  http://twitter.com/52isthemike

                  Comment

                  • Skerik
                    Living in this tube
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 5215

                    #84
                    Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

                    Originally posted by Blzer
                    Well, just so that everybody's aware, steroids does not guarantee you better statistics. That's exactly why I said those four names... not only did they not grow, but they did not improve. Also, I know that I've said this one before... but when Bonds took the "cream" and the "clear" in 2003... it turned out that statistically, 2003 was by far his worst season between 2001 - 2004, and his on-pace for 2005 stats were better also.

                    And Pujols... like we've already said, stats may not inflate or whatever. Also, you can question whether he took them when he was in the minor leagues. They certainly are accessible there, too. Probably not so easy to obtain, but you know. Anything's possible. I just find it funny that he seems completely left out of the picture.



                    Really... the only proof that we can get that somebody took steroids is either by admitting it or if we have documented or visual aids. Because inflated stats do NOT always happen here, guys. Steroids give you the opportunity to make yourself stronger, not better. Also just remember that they are not magic pills. You do not become a juggernaut overnight. They allow you to be very capable of it, though... which is why they're illegal.


                    It took 9 pages, but we all knew where this thread was going....thanks for not disappointing us, Blzer.
                    Helen: Everyone's special, Dash.
                    Dash: [muttering] Which is another way of saying no one is.

                    Comment

                    • mjb2124
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 13649

                      #85
                      Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

                      Originally posted by Blzer
                      Well, just so that everybody's aware, steroids does not guarantee you better statistics. That's exactly why I said those four names... not only did they not grow, but they did not improve. Also, I know that I've said this one before... but when Bonds took the "cream" and the "clear" in 2003... it turned out that statistically, 2003 was by far his worst season between 2001 - 2004, and his on-pace for 2005 stats were better also.
                      While steroids don't guarantee better stats, they certainly give the player using them added benefits. Also, what if those players mentioned wouldn't even be in the MLB without steroids? What if simply taking steroids kept them in the game? In other words, it IS possible that they do help to get better stats and some of the lower names took them because it was their way to stay in MLB.

                      I know you keep bringing up 2003 as the cream and clear years, but there's very little chance that's the only thing Bonds ever took and very litte chance that was the only year. Most documented Balco reports state he's been on stuff since 1998. This is also a strong case for why he had that injury where his muscle COMPLETELY tore off the bone injury in 1999. That's not normal and often associated with 'roid use.

                      Comment

                      • GBrushTWood
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2003
                        • 1624

                        #86
                        Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

                        Originally posted by CWood2
                        Not a coincidence that he took off for Japan once testing was announced and came back after getting his system clean (my opinion at least).
                        I guess you're a fan of revisionist history, eh? Kapler has come out, numerous times, and spoken candidly about steroid usage, and answered questions about himself. He's consistently spoken about how he could have used steroids, but he could not face his family nor those close to him if he did such a thing. I take the man's word on this one.

                        Re: going to Japan: He went because he was offered a truckload of money to play fulltime as opposed to making far less in a backup role with the Red Sox. In the case of Kapler, correlation does not equal causation.

                        By your same logic: You notice the amount of fish in the sea decreasing over an interval. You also notice me consistently ripping farts in the sea over this same period. You would then go on to claim that my farts were responsible for killing off the fish population. Obviously, such a statement is foolish, for the decrease in fish could be caused by third variables such as level of toxic waste dumped into the ocean, or an oil spill. Here, the variables of number of fish over an interval, and fart appearance co-vary, but you would need to take further steps and eliminate the possibility of third variables to apply any direction of causality.
                        This applies to Kapler in the form of: Sure, the fact that he went to Japan correlates with the announcement of testing. These two events co-vary, but you would need further evidence to prove any direction of causality. Because it is difficult to prove such a thing, you are left with your simple correlation, and no more. You can not claim that Kapler moved to Japan to avoid steroid testing.

                        This brings me to my overall response to this thread: You guys are absolute f'n moe-rons. You are all simply cherry picking random data to support your conclusion that Person X is/was a steroid user. This is astoundingly poor reasoning and has no merit whatsoever with any person of rational, logical understanding. You are all proving nothing with this thread aside from making yourselves appear petty, foolish, and individuals who possibly wear tin-foil hats while believing the Ruskies killed JFK.

                        Baseball players used steroids in the past. Many of them. We have no way of proving who did what. It sucks, and it tarnishes the integrity of the game, but randomly picking out names to blame is disgustingly immature, dangerous, and no different than those accusing poor women in the 1700's of being witches in Salem, Massachusetts. When we look back at those witch trials now, we all think to ourselves: how f'n stupid were these people? I pretty much feel the same way about anybody who proposed accusations in this thread.

                        Comment

                        • NYJets
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 18637

                          #87
                          Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

                          Originally posted by Blzer
                          Also, I know that I've said this one before... but when Bonds took the "cream" and the "clear" in 2003... it turned out that statistically, 2003 was by far his worst season between 2001 - 2004, and his on-pace for 2005 stats were better also.
                          What's your point?

                          Bonds has been taking a lot more than the clear and the cream since 1998 and his numbers since 98 are a lot better than before 98.
                          Originally posted by Jay Bilas
                          The question isn't whether UConn belongs with the elites, but over the last 20 years, whether the rest of the college basketball elite belongs with UConn

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                          • RoyalBoyle78
                            Aka."Footballforever"
                            • May 2003
                            • 23918

                            #88
                            Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

                            Originally posted by NYJets
                            What's your point?

                            Bonds has been taking a lot more than the clear and the cream since 1998 and his numbers since 98 are a lot better than before 98.
                            Thats what I'm saying, If my favorite played used roids, I would not try and defend him,I love baseball too much, to defend a liar and a cheater...
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                            Comment

                            • joeysosa
                              MVP
                              • Apr 2005
                              • 1051

                              #89
                              Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

                              Well I can easily name the greatest baseball player of all time, Barry Bonds, but that would be too easy.

                              Hell, naming about 80% of the league would be too easy.

                              Look all around ya fellas, these guys pretty much are all on the juice.

                              But, for the sake of the thread:

                              Roger Clemens.

                              Comment

                              • Blzer
                                Resident film pundit
                                • Mar 2004
                                • 42526

                                #90
                                Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

                                Originally posted by Vinceanity2k3
                                Do you still think Bonds never used roids?
                                Who said that? I can and will still say that whatever has been documented is either false or unknowingly used. I am allowed to say that, and you can beat it to death, but by belief cannot do something like ban me or whatever... so I am allowed to say it.

                                Why aren't I allowed to say that Pujols may be a candidate? (though I don't believe that he is... I don't even believe that Sosa did, that's how bad I am). I just believe that Sosa sucks and his 4 consecutive lucky years were nothing BUT luck, that's all.
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