The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

[HMcCoy]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

Albert Belle

[slickdtc]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

Baseball players used steroids in the past. Many of them. We have no way of proving who did what. It sucks, and it tarnishes the integrity of the game, but randomly picking out names to blame is disgustingly immature, dangerous, and no different than those accusing poor women in the 1700's of being witches in Salem, Massachusetts. When we look back at those witch trials now, we all think to ourselves: how f'n stupid were these people? I pretty much feel the same way about anybody who proposed accusations in this thread.

Whoa, it's a lot different from the situation you described. First off, this is just pure speculation. The Salem incidents were speculation then action. We have no power to bring down these guys, and I know I wouldn't do anything without hard evidence anyway.

It may be childish, but it's an honest thought. Although I think some of these names popping up are pretty ridiculous. I also think that 80% of the league taking steroids is ridiculous too.

I don't know. Gahhh, this whole thing is so annoying!

[HMcCoy]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

It was easy to use, potent, and until recently completely legal. I believe we'd be utterly shocked at the number of major and minor league players juicing throughout MLB...which in my mind balances everything out. IMO, basball numbers are meaningless anyway. The "rules" aren't consistent from park to park, let alone era to era. Dead balls, live balls, higher/lower mounds, stealing signs from the stands, using spiked cleats...its never been consistent. We should just get over it. MLB allowed steroids, the players allowed steroids, the media allowed steroids, and the fans allowed steroids. Everyone with half a brain knew that something was going on over the last decade...but we happily drank the koolaid and enjoyed these monumental records being challenged. I don't know what all the fuss is about now.

I fully believe that if the Babe had a way to cheat...he was cheating. As a matter of fact, when was the first corked bat discovered....and do you ever wonder how many years guys were using them before it was discovered?

[elicoleman]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

Delino DeShields.

[TerpsJunkie]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

Bonds.

[Hootiefish]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

Who said that? I can and will still say that whatever has been documented is either false or unknowingly used. I am allowed to say that, and you can beat it to death, but by belief cannot do something like ban me or whatever... so I am allowed to say it.

Why aren't I allowed to say that Pujols may be a candidate? (though I don't believe that he is... I don't even believe that Sosa did, that's how bad I am). I just believe that Sosa sucks and his 4 consecutive lucky years were nothing BUT luck, that's all.

Come on, you are smarter than that. In Sosa's case, men's bodies do not grow when they are in their late 20's, early 30's. Especially not their heads. Sosa is as good an example of that as anyone else.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

Delino DeShields.

There's a name I haven't heard in freakin' years.

How about Rich Aurilia? He seemed to fall of the face of the Earth.

[Blzer]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

Come on, you are smarter than that. In Sosa's case, men's bodies do not grow when they are in their late 20's, early 30's. Especially not their heads. Sosa is as good an example of that as anyone else.

Again, I'm not going to say that anybody may or may not because of the size of their body. Look at Jim Thome now. He has slimmed down SO much! Yet he's hit 8 homeruns in his final 7 spring training games, and he LAUNCHED one last night.

Even if it is him off of the juice or something, it's not necessarily making him any worse.

[DGetz]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

I guess you're a fan of revisionist history, eh? Kapler has come out, numerous times, and spoken candidly about steroid usage, and answered questions about himself. He's consistently spoken about how he could have used steroids, but he could not face his family nor those close to him if he did such a thing. I take the man's word on this one.

Re: going to Japan: He went because he was offered a truckload of money to play fulltime as opposed to making far less in a backup role with the Red Sox. In the case of Kapler, correlation does not equal causation.

By your same logic: You notice the amount of fish in the sea decreasing over an interval. You also notice me consistently ripping farts in the sea over this same period. You would then go on to claim that my farts were responsible for killing off the fish population. Obviously, such a statement is foolish, for the decrease in fish could be caused by third variables such as level of toxic waste dumped into the ocean, or an oil spill. Here, the variables of number of fish over an interval, and fart appearance co-vary, but you would need to take further steps and eliminate the possibility of third variables to apply any direction of causality.
This applies to Kapler in the form of: Sure, the fact that he went to Japan correlates with the announcement of testing. These two events co-vary, but you would need further evidence to prove any direction of causality. Because it is difficult to prove such a thing, you are left with your simple correlation, and no more. You can not claim that Kapler moved to Japan to avoid steroid testing.

This brings me to my overall response to this thread: You guys are absolute f'n moe-rons. You are all simply cherry picking random data to support your conclusion that Person X is/was a steroid user. This is astoundingly poor reasoning and has no merit whatsoever with any person of rational, logical understanding. You are all proving nothing with this thread aside from making yourselves appear petty, foolish, and individuals who possibly wear tin-foil hats while believing the Ruskies killed JFK.

Baseball players used steroids in the past. Many of them. We have no way of proving who did what. It sucks, and it tarnishes the integrity of the game, but randomly picking out names to blame is disgustingly immature, dangerous, and no different than those accusing poor women in the 1700's of being witches in Salem, Massachusetts. When we look back at those witch trials now, we all think to ourselves: how f'n stupid were these people? I pretty much feel the same way about anybody who proposed accusations in this thread.

I feel where you're coming from on this. I don't really have a problem with people speculating who used steroids, so long as it at least makes sense. You have to look at a number of potential signs: big time increases in size, acne, changes in facial structure, increases in productivity, a sudden drop off at the time of more testing and harsher penalties (beyond moving to a new ballpark or general aging), the type of injuries associated with steroid use, etc. Not to say everyone who uses exhibits all these symptoms, but if they dont have some it's really not fair to assume.

I think that's the problem with this thread - people are just throwing names out for no apparant reason. I mean Griffey, A-Rod, Pujols? I'd love to hear what the rationale was behind anyone accusing them other than that they're good players. There are guys capable of hitting 40+, or even more, homeruns without using any sort of illegal steroids; not all good players are on steroids and not everyone on steroids is a good player (by MLB standards of course).

[tehova]

Re: The Official: "Name one player who you believe has taken steroids thread..."

Slightly off topic but i've noticed we go there in this thread every now and then.
I guess growing up in north carolina i never had a baseball "team" so I found myself only rooting for the players and not so much team success and whatnot. So of course Barry Bonds is my favorite player of ALL TIME, I realize i don't respect the game of baseball, the history, the pagentry, none of what makes baseball so "special". So despite the steroid allegations/proof I can't not cheer for him, I spent too much time learning to bat lefthanded and choking up on my bat ( with the immediate double arm salute for homeruns) and what makes it more fascinating is I always cheer for the bad guy, now my favorite player has become the bad guy and an underdog at the same time. I love it!

I keep wanting him to say of course I took steriods, "who cares *in brett farve voice* what are you going to do cut me?"

And for one of my classes I did have to research the effects of steroids and the alarming rate of children that use steriods, many not even for athletic purposes. Just for the image and look. Yet I give Bonds a pass, its weird. And to get back on topic.

David Justice - because you don't break up with Halle Berry as a normally functioning human. end rant/]