Official Barry Bonds Thread

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  • Scottdau
    Banned
    • Feb 2003
    • 32580

    #136
    Re: ESPN and Bonds

    Originally posted by bkrich83
    You're the one telling me to ask scouts (which I actually had done), and saying things like you've seen him live more than I ever will, and I know everything.

    Ok.

    I have been to a lot of games, and I have played ball my whole life. and have still good friends playing pro sports today! I am sure you know a lot. I don;t doubt that, but all the scouts I have talk to said Bonds had a great arm, not strong, but still got it there in time!

    But this is the internet and people lie so much, you never know who is telling truth.

    And I am ust saying being a Giants fan I have seen Bonds play a lot. Probably over 150 games if not maybe more!

    Comment

    • Blzer
      Resident film pundit
      • Mar 2004
      • 42526

      #137
      Re: ESPN and Bonds

      Originally posted by bkrich83
      How can you say stuff like this with a straight face?
      Are we watching Seven here?
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      • keRplunK
        MVP
        • Jul 2002
        • 4080

        #138
        Re: ESPN and Bonds

        Originally posted by Blzer
        I feel that, in some odd way, that he deserves the home runs that he hits more if that makes sense.
        I think you're in love.

        Comment

        • BGarrett7
          All Star
          • Jul 2003
          • 5890

          #139
          Re: ESPN and Bonds

          Originally posted by Blzer
          Bonds has a pure swing (weight back, compact swing, etc... I can actually compare my swing to Bonds' if you give me the chance), and I feel that, in some odd way, that he deserves the home runs that he hits more if that makes sense.
          If you must know, no, that doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. Bonds deserves more credit for his homeruns because he has a more pure swing than Pujols? Seriously, is your head really that far up your rectal cavity?

          Comment

          • bkrich83
            Has Been
            • Jul 2002
            • 71582

            #140
            Re: ESPN and Bonds

            Originally posted by Scottd
            I have been to a lot of games, and I have played ball my whole life. and have still good friends playing pro sports today! I am sure you know a lot. I don;t doubt that, but all the scouts I have talk to said Bonds had a great arm, not strong, but still got it there in time!

            But this is the internet and people lie so much, you never know who is telling truth.

            And I am ust saying being a Giants fan I have seen Bonds play a lot. Probably over 150 games if not maybe more!
            I actuallly gave you the names of the people who were in front office positions that told me the opposite.
            Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

            Comment

            • Blzer
              Resident film pundit
              • Mar 2004
              • 42526

              #141
              Re: ESPN and Bonds

              Originally posted by BGarrett7
              If you must know, no, that doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. Bonds deserves more credit for his homeruns because he has a more pure swing than Pujols? Seriously, is your head really that far up your rectal cavity?
              :y4:

              Yeah, it may not make sense. Maybe it's only because you don't understand it. Bonds used to hit the ball just as far that he does now, and it's in his swing (because of his bat speed, his leg power and his amazing torque), not his arm strength. Any real hitting coach will tell you that.
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              • Scottdau
                Banned
                • Feb 2003
                • 32580

                #142
                Re: ESPN and Bonds

                Originally posted by BGarrett7
                Yes, and even with release and accuracy involved, he was still widely regarded as having one of the worst arms in the game, even for a LF.
                Well this is news to me, because everyone that I talked about Bonds too said his arm was great. Not strong, but got it there! And even the experts said that!

                Comment

                • bkrich83
                  Has Been
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 71582

                  #143
                  Re: ESPN and Bonds

                  Originally posted by Blzer
                  :y4:

                  Yeah, it may not make sense. Maybe it's only because you don't understand it. Bonds used to hit the ball just as far that he does now, and it's in his swing (because of his bat speed, his leg power and his amazing torque), not his arm strength. Any real hitting coach will tell you that.
                  He never hit the ball with this much power before help from the lab though.
                  Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

                  Comment

                  • Misfit
                    All Star
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 5766

                    #144
                    Re: ESPN and Bonds

                    Originally posted by Blzer
                    Most of what you're saying makes sense, and I can't say that I disagree with too much of it. But Bonds had the quickest swing and the best eye in the game (to watch the ball come in for such a long time) way before 1998. I mean, both of them have incredible bat speed, and this was something else that I didn't like about Pujols... his home runs seem to come from just a lot of arm strength, and anybody that watched that weight forward/one-handed home run in Colorado that he hit last year will know what I mean.

                    Bonds has a pure swing (weight back, compact swing, etc... I can actually compare my swing to Bonds' if you give me the chance), and I feel that, in some odd way, that he deserves the home runs that he hits more if that makes sense.


                    Maybe it doesn't... again, I'm talking with improv and it's all out of my ***. But, if you understand, then it would make sense and you would agree.

                    A foot injury all last year prevented Pujols from putting much weight on his back foot. Look at the tape before 2004 and you will see an almost text-book batting stance. Being able to hit .330 in such a condition is not a knock on his swing but a testament to it. Bonds could easily be criticized for having the old "one foot in the bucket" swing because of how he steps away from the plate before his swing much in the same way you criticized Pujols' swing. Personally, I think anyone who is a proven .300 hitter without any easily indentifiable holes has a good swing. Steroids improve a human's ability to track a baseball, so we don't know who has the better batting eye. If Bonds can get 600 PA's this year and strike out 50 times or so then he could very well answer that question.

                    Comment

                    • BGarrett7
                      All Star
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 5890

                      #145
                      Re: ESPN and Bonds

                      Originally posted by Blzer
                      Maybe by you. Maybe by BGarrett. Maybe by 100,000,000 other people. But, if and when one baseball analyst says that he has a plus arm, it can be disagreed upon... but his belief in what's important in an arm cannot be rejected in the sense that it's incorrect.
                      Is accuracy and release very important in being considered to have a above-average arm? Definitely. No one is arguing that point. It is certainly as important as having a strong arm. The same logic very much applies to pitching, as well. What there is no denying or arguing is that almost everyone involved in baseball agreed, or agrees, that Barry has, or had, a very weak arm.

                      Comment

                      • bkrich83
                        Has Been
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 71582

                        #146
                        Re: ESPN and Bonds

                        Originally posted by BGarrett7
                        Is accuracy and release very important in being considered to have a above-average arm? Definitely. No one is arguing that point. It is certainly as important as having a strong arm. The same logic very much applies to pitching, as well. What there is no denying or arguing is that almost everyone involved in baseball agreed, or agrees, that Barry has, or had, a very weak arm.
                        Agreed.

                        Who was the last "5 tool player" to play LF? Why do you think he's been a LF just about his entire career.
                        Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

                        Comment

                        • BGarrett7
                          All Star
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 5890

                          #147
                          Re: ESPN and Bonds

                          Originally posted by Scottd
                          Well this is news to me, because everyone that I talked about Bonds too said his arm was great. Not strong, but got it there! And even the experts said that!
                          From Baseball America's scouting report on Bonds from the 1986 season:

                          "He's instinctive in center field and can cover the alleys, but his arm may keep him in left."

                          Cite

                          Comment

                          • Scottdau
                            Banned
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 32580

                            #148
                            Re: ESPN and Bonds

                            Originally posted by bkrich83
                            I actuallly gave you the names of the people who were in front office positions that told me the opposite.
                            Then we just have to disagree to disagree. But every scout have different opinions, but I will say this Bonds got the job done in left field and if he wasn't that good than how did he win all those gold gloves!


                            Bk, did you ever play pro sports, I played a little college and have some friend still playing today in football and baseball, well infact mostly retire now that I think about, damn I getting old!

                            Comment

                            • Scottdau
                              Banned
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 32580

                              #149
                              Re: ESPN and Bonds

                              Originally posted by BGarrett7
                              From Baseball America's scouting report on Bonds from the 1986 season:

                              "He's instinctive in center field and can cover the alleys, but his arm may keep him in left."

                              Cite
                              Center field you need to have a cannon, accuracy doesnt really matter! lol

                              Comment

                              • Blzer
                                Resident film pundit
                                • Mar 2004
                                • 42526

                                #150
                                Re: ESPN and Bonds

                                Originally posted by Misfit
                                A foot injury all last year prevented Pujols from putting much weight on his back foot. Look at the tape before 2004 and you will see an almost text-book batting stance. Being able to hit .330 in such a condition is not a knock on his swing but a testament to it.
                                Well, sure. But, the same can be said about the wishbone defense played against Bonds. How can you find a hole in there? How does he still hit .362 in a season with that? Granted, he can bunt (Ortiz did that last year), but that's just not asking a realistic favor. If he has a 60% chance of getting on-base anyway (and a very good chance of either getting further than first base, or sending a runner further than one bag), then asking him to bunt is probably not plausible.


                                There is nothing that I think Pujols is bad at that you guys are saying. I hope that you guys understand that I'm not trying to give him any negative connotations. He is the best player in the MLB. But Barry Bonds doesn't play in the MLB. He plays in some other league (I guess of extraordinary gentlemen?), and he is the only one in it. Maybe Pujols will be later in his career... but at this point and time, I will safely say that I do not believe his is close to being there, yet.
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