What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

[BatsareBugs]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

I know it must suck being a Padre fan and not really having anything to be excited about, but please. Felix is insanely talented. Is he better than Johan? No way, not yet. Can he be? IMO, he can and I think will.

Jake Peavy and Trevor Hoffman are so boring, they shouldn't be in the league. Darn, I wish my team had an exciting starting rotation like the Yankees.

Felix is insanely talented, but pulling out blogs and quotes mean nothing. No one is going to talk crap about another player in a publication. It's not like at age 20 Oliver Perez was earning props from Barry Bonds, Larry Walker, Luis Gonzalez, and Shawn Green on how filthy his stuff was or how he could've been the next Randy Johnson.

Three years in the big leagues. He has potential and he still has to prove it.

[Misfit]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

They obviously, both have great stuff. Liriano had just about as dominating results as you can get over 121 innings last year. Santana has been the best pitcher in baseball the last few years.

They are a tough comparison because they are both left-handers and have a completely different style than Felix. Liriano actually reminded me of Randy Johnson last year. Liriano obviously has a few pitches that are so electric that he could run through the league with a 1.91 era over 99 innings with an amazing strike-out rate, that was at the age of 22.

During felix's first run through the league he wasn't allowed to throw, what most consider his best pitch (slider), went through the league with a 2.67 era over 84 innings and a good strike-out rate. That was at the age of 19.

Felix has a very good: 2-seam fastball, curveball, slider, and change-up. Nobody in the league has the array of dominate pitches that he has. And that is really where my argument is.

Some have a pretty similar curveball or a slider, but nobody has a 95+ mph 2-seamer, to go along with his off-speed pitches.

So to put it clearly: They both are very good with amazing stuff. I'd give the edge to Felix because of all the pitches he has, and he has a better track record through the minors. He's been dominating since he was 17 and had his first semi-failure in the major leagues at the age of 20.

Liriano was always talented and good but he just kind of went crazy at the end of his 2005 season (at 21) and carried it over into the majors the following year (at 22).

I just hope Liriano comes back the way he was.

I thought you just said "stuff" doesn't equate to stats? So why are you giving us Liriano's minor leagure stats versus Hernandez'? And furthermore, who cares what each guy did in the minors?! It matters how they perform in the show and last year no one was more dominating than Liriano. He has a slider second only to Randy Johnson's prime years and an explosive fastball. Too bad his elbow couldn't handle the stuff he possessed.

Felix has an impressive fastball, but you act like a mid 90's 2-seamer is impossible to find. Josh Beckett has thrown his 2-seamer between 93 and 97mph his whole career, and we saw last year how much that helped him. Felix is better equiped to be a star than a guy like Beckett though because he doesn have secondary pitches. His slider was overhyped early on, it's very good but not even close to the best slider in the game. His curve, to me, looks like his best off-speed pitch. His change-up isn't quite there yet but for a 21 year old it's damn good. Does he have the best stuff in the league? I don't know. If we're just talking the AL, KRod has the best slider out of anyone. Best fastball? Right now no one's is more dominating than Jon Papelbon's. And of course, the best change goes to Santana. Hernandez may have the best curve now that Zito is in the NL, though Roy Halladay Zack Greinke might argue with me on that one.

If we're looking at a complete arsenal, I think Halladay is tops in the league with Santana behind. Hernandez has had two great starts this year, but last year was middle of the road and didn't demonstrate complete command of any of his pitches. Both Halladay and Santana have multiple plus pitches they can throw for a strike at anytime (Halladay having more than Santana, seems like the only thing he doesn't throw is a knuckleball). I think it's only a matter of time before Hernandez gets to that level but he has a lot to prove.

And furthermore, should you really be boasting about this guy? You (and others) talked him up like he was the greatest thing heading into last year and then when he got knocked around you hid for the rest of the season. Let's see some humility here.

[cjonesfan921]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

I thought you just said "stuff" doesn't equate to stats? So why are you giving us Liriano's minor leagure stats versus Hernandez'? And furthermore, who cares what each guy did in the minors?! It matters how they perform in the show and last year no one was more dominating than Liriano. He has a slider second only to Randy Johnson's prime years and an explosive fastball. Too bad his elbow couldn't handle the stuff he possessed.

Felix has an impressive fastball, but you act like a mid 90's 2-seamer is impossible to find. Josh Beckett has thrown his 2-seamer between 93 and 97mph his whole career, and we saw last year how much that helped him. Felix is better equiped to be a star than a guy like Beckett though because he doesn have secondary pitches. His slider was overhyped early on, it's very good but not even close to the best slider in the game. His curve, to me, looks like his best off-speed pitch. His change-up isn't quite there yet but for a 21 year old it's damn good. Does he have the best stuff in the league? I don't know. If we're just talking the AL, KRod has the best slider out of anyone. Best fastball? Right now no one's is more dominating than Jon Papelbon's. And of course, the best change goes to Santana. Hernandez may have the best curve now that Zito is in the NL, though Roy Halladay Zack Greinke might argue with me on that one.

If we're looking at a complete arsenal, I think Halladay is tops in the league with Santana behind. Hernandez has had two great starts this year, but last year was middle of the road and didn't demonstrate complete command of any of his pitches. Both Halladay and Santana have multiple plus pitches they can throw for a strike at anytime (Halladay having more than Santana, seems like the only thing he doesn't throw is a knuckleball). I think it's only a matter of time before Hernandez gets to that level but he has a lot to prove.

And furthermore, should you really be boasting about this guy? You (and others) talked him up like he was the greatest thing heading into last year and then when he got knocked around you hid for the rest of the season. Let's see some humility here.

Forget about him but yes Halladay has some good "stuff", wouldn't have a problem putting him 1st, he is nasty. In regards to Felix, in the words of a very wise man, put the anointing oil away. Let him prove himself, 2 starts isn't proving himself.

[bkrich83]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

And furthermore, should you really be boasting about this guy? You (and others) talked him up like he was the greatest thing heading into last year and then when he got knocked around you hid for the rest of the season. Let's see some humility here.

Exactly. But they brought this thread back to life a year later, after 2 starts. Hilarity.

[bkrich83]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

Agreed on Halladay. Nasty.

[Coug00]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

Agreed on Halladay. Nasty.

Halladay
2005 - FIP:3.01, xFIP: 3.00, K/G: 7.5, BB/G: 1.2
2006 - FIP: 3.65, xFIP: 3.59, K/G: 5.8, BB/G: 1.5

Hernandez
2005 - FIP: 2.88, xFIP: 2.89, K/G: 9.0, BB/G: 2.7
2006 - FIP: 3.99, xFIP: 3.56, K/G: 8.3, BB/G: 2.8

Does that make Felix nasty too? Even during his bad '06 season?

IMO, at this point Halladay is a smarter pitcher, but Felix has better stuff. If Felix can avoid injury, throw strikes, and continue to mature he'll be light years ahead of Halladay.

Halladay, at least statistically, is a modern day Teddy Higuera.

[bkrich83]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

Halladay
2005 - FIP:3.01, xFIP: 3.00, K/G: 7.5, BB/G: 1.2
2006 - FIP: 3.65, xFIP: 3.59, K/G: 5.8, BB/G: 1.5

Hernandez
2005 - FIP: 2.88, xFIP: 2.89, K/G: 9.0, BB/G: 2.7
2006 - FIP: 3.99, xFIP: 3.56, K/G: 8.3, BB/G: 2.8

Does that make Felix nasty too? Even during his bad '06 season?

IMO, at this point Halladay is a smarter pitcher, but Felix has better stuff. If Felix can avoid injury, throw strikes, and continue to mature he'll be light years ahead of Halladay.

Halladay, at least statistically, is a modern day Teddy Higuera.

Of course he will, he's a Mariner. If a player plays for a Seattle team, aren't they automatically great? Would you say Hernandez had a good 06 season? Was he the dominant pitcher, Mariner fans were touting him to be before the season? I mean before they all went underground.

Did I ever say Felix wasn't nasty? I said before we start saying he has the best anything, or annoit him to the HOF ,or start calling him King Felix again, as Mariner fans did last year before the season, lets let him play a while.

[Coug00]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

Of course he will, he's a Mariner. If a player plays for a Seattle team, aren't they automatically great?

Did I ever say Felix wasn't nasty? I said before we start saying he has the best anything, or annoit him to the HOF ,or start calling him King Felix again, as Mariner fans did last year before the season, lets let him play a while.

LOL! That's rich. Me a Seattle homer. I've heard it all now.

And I agree, let's let Felix play a little while, but half the fun of being a fan are the predictions. Is there anything wrong with that? And I won't hide if Felix tanks this season.

[bkrich83]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

I know he's just a closer and doesn't have to go through the order 2 or 3 times a game but if talking who's flat out filthy what about a guy like K-Rod?

What about a guy like Peavy? What about Rich Harden when healthy?

[bkrich83]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

LOL! That's rich. Me a Seattle homer. I've heard it all now.

And I agree, let's let Felix play a little while, but half the fun of being a fan are the predictions. Is there anything wrong with that? And I won't hide if Felix tanks this season.

Predictions are one thing. Things like Mariners fans saying he was the best pitcher in baseball after 84 innings of work, then hiding when he tanks is another thing. Is it not?

[Coug00]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

Predictions are one thing. Things like Mariners fans saying he was the best pitcher in baseball after 84 innings of work, then hiding when he tanks in another thing. Is it not?

If there were M's fans who were saying he's the best in baseball after his rookie season I feel sad for them. I would have been annoyed with that as well. On the other hand there were so many "experts" in the press predicting him to have a better '06 season than Doc's '85 season. That would put him near the best in the league. So those fans weren't alone.

[Psyblast]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

Best fastball? Right now no one's is more dominating than Jon Papelbon's.

*Disclaimer: The following post is pure homerism*

[Coug00]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

I know he's just a closer and doesn't have to go through the order 2 or 3 times a game but if talking who's flat out filthy what about a guy like K-Rod?

What about a guy like Peavy? What about Rich Harden when healthy?

Closers are tough to analyze from a pure stuff standpoint since they don't cycle through the lineup. K-Rod, Nathan, Putz are all efficient out machines.

For starting pitchers, from a consistency standpoint, I think Santana and Sheets are the best in their respective leagues.

[snepp]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

*Disclaimer: The following post is pure homerism*

Nah, that isn't homerism. Zumaya was the first name that came to mind when I thought "best fastball", and I'm not exactly a Tigers fan.

[bkrich83]

Re: What's the scoop with Felix Hernandez?

Nah, that isn't homerism. Zumaya was the first name that came to mind when I thought "best fastball", and I'm not exactly a Tigers fan.

Same..