Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

So my rant is more about why Bonds gets so much heat even though he never failed a test, and Clemens gets the free pass from everyone.

Overwhelming circumstantial evidence linking Barry Bonds to known convicted steroid distributors, the least of which includes calendars detailing Bonds scheduled 'roid intakes during specified intervals. In addition, the drastic physical changes to his body over the last couple of years. All detailed in the book released a few weeks ago.

Clemens: No accusations from people within the game as far as I know (i.e. - Canseco's book). No known links to steroid distributors that I know of. No drastic physical appearance changes over the years. No failed steroid tests. Longetivity in terms of production and records rather than shattering of single season records following his accused steroid consumption seasons (i.e. - obliterating single season home run record in 2001)

Bonds gets ****ted on because a) the aforementioned overwhelming circumstantial evidence and b) he is almost unanimously considered a complete *** by those around him.
Clemens gets a free pass because there is virtually no evidence linking him to any steroid or performance enhancing drug that I am aware of. Clemens is largely idolized by many present ball players and has never really been known to be a jerk off the field.

Ergo, you get the established perceptions of both ball players. Even if I am incorrect in any of my above assertions, to throw race into the discussion is a non sequitir of the highest order and worthy of any prior, current, or future Internet pwnings.

[joeysosa]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

I agree with the original poster, but it might just be a Bay Area thing because it seems like we are the only people in this country that aren't oblivious to the fact that the entire MLB is plagued with steroids, white, black, hitter, pitcher, good player, bad player, punk, or saint. I'm not even a Giants fan, as you can see.

To say that Bonds is criticized because he's an punk is a horrid statement. Bonds' attitude should have nothing to do with legal allegations against him. We realize you guys hate him (media, OS posters), but that does not mean a guy is a criminal because he is a punk to the media.

Still, we all know Bonds took steroids. We all know the reason Bonds didn't play last year was so he could clean his system from whatever he was taking. Why, then, does NO ONE even question the possibility of Clemens doing the same?

I read people saying it's because Bonds is directly connected to Balco (it's situated in the same city, he's affiliated with the CEO, etc.). But do you really think it's that hard for a professional baseball player to have his agent pick up his phone and dial up Balco and fill out an order for the newest supply of roids? Do you really think it's out of the possibility?

Hello, America: Just cause Balco is in the Bay Area, doesn't mean only players in the Bay Area have access to it. Welcome to the information age.

People questioned Bonds' use of steroids because he is dominating in his 40's, yet Clemens is doing the exact same thing (he won a Cy Young 2 years ago). How people can just say Clemens didn't take steroids because they love Clemens and "trust him" is just ignorance, and immaturity.

When will baseball fans wake up? When will America finally realize that our pasttime has been plagued by lies and cheating by a majority of players for years, no matter who they are?

It makes me more sick that people neglect to recognize that many players take steroids than the actual act of the players taking the steroids themselves.

Baseball, fans, if you TRULY love the game of baseball more than you love players like Roger Clemens etc., you would have a more open mind and realize that a lot of your favorite players actually take the drug; don't just blame one player. If you truly love baseball, you would want to rid the game of CHEATING among ALL of our superstars, not just Barry Bonds.

[shugknight]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

Well, Bonds hasn't failed a steroid test either, or he would be out of the league. They suspect that Bonds takes HGH, which I wouldn't be surprised if that's what Clemens takes too, considering how he throws this late in his career.

This is why I think steroids has ruined the game of baseball. Its fans like these that automatically think some player is on steroids. Granted there is a slight possibility he might be on roids, but there has never been an incident where roids and clemens was in the same sentence.

Umm.. if you think Roger Clemens is on roids.. did you think Nolan Ryan was on roids too?

[NYJets]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

Why, then, does NO ONE even question the possibility of Clemens doing the same?

Because he didn't miss time during the first season of steroid testing, like Bonds did.

Clemens was tested last year and tested for the WBC, and they haven't found anything.

People questioned Bonds' use of steroids because he is dominating in his 40's, yet Clemens is doing the exact same thing (he won a Cy Young 2 years ago). How people can just say Clemens didn't take steroids because they love Clemens and "trust him" is just ignorance, and immaturity.

And people are questioning Clemens for that. Difference is that is the only reason to question Clemens. There is tons of evidence that Bonds took them.

And Clemens maintained what he had been doing his whole career into his 40s. Bonds nearly doubled his homerun totals and became a totally different player.

[mjb2124]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

I agree with the original poster, but it might just be a Bay Area thing because it seems like we are the only people in this country that aren't oblivious to the fact that the entire MLB is plagued with steroids

You're living in a bubble if you believe that. Trust me, most people realize this. It's been obvious for years.

Like I said before, why would Clemens sit out this season to clense himself of steroids? He ALREADY played in the WBC where the steroid testing is MUCH stricter than in MLB. If he didn't fail that test, he's NOT on them now. I can't stress that enough. The WBC test was a blood test. MLB is a urine test. It is VERY difficult to pass a blood test.

[Scottdau]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

I am sure he was taking something maybe not roids, but the dude is a brick even at his age.

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

Bonds is "shunned" because he's an enormous jerk, not because he's black.

And I guess the fact we have proof on Bonds?

As for Clemens, he was and still is a star that's shining in the hearts of many baseball fans.

[snepp]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

Let's face it. Roger Clemens is taking time off from baseball to clean his body out from steroids. He's doing what Bonds did last season, stepping away from the game to flush free of 'roids.

He wasn't eligible to sign with the Astros until May 1st. It has been known for quite some time that if he did come back to pitch this year, it wouldn't be until that time.

You can't throw that much heat at the age that he is.

I'm guessing you didn't follow baseball in the early the 90's. There was this guy, can't recall his name (sarcasm), but he was 3 years older than Clemons is now, and he brought heat that would put Roger's to shame.

Clemens and McGwire were America's poster boys, yet Bonds is shunned. There are racial undertones behind this. They are subtle, but they do exist.

Sherik covered this point pretty well. I'll add that McGwire's "poster" has lost quite a bit of its luster recently.

Anyone else think "The Rocket" is on 'roids?

I don't.

[DirrtySouth78]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

Who's next..I guess since Greg Maddux is havin a good season he must be on em too....You can pitch well when you get older..There was this one guy called Ryan, he seemed to do well....If you can condition yourself well, it is concievable that you can play for a long time (Julio Franco)....Remember old in Sports isn't that old in life itself..There always have been a few guys who seemed like they could play forever, always will be....One more name to throw out who did well late in Baseball years Satchel Paige...and its not a Racial thing, its an a**hole thing..Bonds was an a** for all his career and now that he is getting close were suppost to be like "Oh Barry we forgive you for last 15 years and everything is ok"..He's an a** who just happens to be black...

[countryboy]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

First of all, there is no reason race should even come into these conversations, because that is not what the threads are about. They are about steroids.

While speaking on steroids, are we going to start an individual thread each time that someone achieves a milestone and say how that individual player must be on steroids?

Look, the reason everyone is "against/after" Bonds is because he was affiliated with an organization that was found guilty of distributing steroids. Let me ask you all who think this is a witch hunt this, do you think that everyone else involved with BALCO, players, trainers, and founders, are guilty? If so, then how come Bonds isn't guilty?

Yes, before someone says it, I know that Bonds has passed every drug test given by MLB, but I also know that the testing that MLB had before this season was very inadequate.

[ehh]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

Clemens has the most insane off season workouts, the guy is not on steriods.

[stripmallp]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

I have been saying for 2 years that Clemens must have done steroids at one time or another. When he left Boston he looked like he would be a 2 or 3 starter at best for the rest of his career. Instead he reeled off 2 consecutive Cy Young awards in 1997 & 1998. That to me sounds awfully similar to Bonds & McGwire starting to decline and ending up shattering the Home Run records.

I don't think it is much of a coinsidence that even the years in which Clemens, McGwire, Sosa and Bonds are very close on the timeline.

From what I know of Clemens workout routine, it doesn't sound like something a "normal" human can withstand and still make 35 starts a year and not burnout. It just doesn't seem likely to me that he is completely on the level.

[ballaholics]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

I have been saying for 2 years that Clemens must have done steroids at one time or another. When he left Boston he looked like he would be a 2 or 3 starter at best for the rest of his career. Instead he reeled off 2 consecutive Cy Young awards in 1997 & 1998. That to me sounds awfully similar to Bonds & McGwire starting to decline and ending up shattering the Home Run records.

I don't think it is much of a coinsidence that even the years in which Clemens, McGwire, Sosa and Bonds are very close on the timeline.

From what I know of Clemens workout routine, it doesn't sound like something a "normal" human can withstand and still make 35 starts a year and not burnout. It just doesn't seem likely to me that he is completely on the level.

In addition to that, in pitching, you can't multiply your statistical production like you can in hitting. If you're already pitching 1.50, you won't be able to bring it down to 0.75. That's just the nature of the game, since pitching is on the defensive. So don't tell me Clemens didn't do the equivalent of going from 50 HR to 70, by extending his shelf life, throwing heat this late, and keeping his body rejuvenated, something only steroids can do for a man his age.

[Stu]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

I have been saying for 2 years that Clemens must have done steroids at one time or another. When he left Boston he looked like he would be a 2 or 3 starter at best for the rest of his career. Instead he reeled off 2 consecutive Cy Young awards in 1997 & 1998. That to me sounds awfully similar to Bonds & McGwire starting to decline and ending up shattering the Home Run records.

When Clemens left Boston he was a lazy piece of **** and hurt all the time. It wasn't until he left that he started working out like a madman again, and got himself in shape to pitch at a high level. Could he have used steroids to get in shape? Possibly. Is the fact that he got in shape enough evidence to even make an accusation? Not even close. The circumstances with Clemens aren't the same as they were for Bonds. Now we're gonna start accusing every player who gets in better shape over an offseason?

[snepp]

Re: Why doesn't anyone talk about Roger Clemens and steroids?

Randy Johnson is on the juice too, because there is no way he could throw heat without them.

Julio Franco must be a massive 'roid freak. I mean come on, it's the ONLY possible way he could still be playing.

Add Greg Maddux to the list, he's too old to do anything without shooting up.