Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

[CMH]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

It's not fair to blame Boras first and not the pitcher. The pitcher chose him, and everyone knows that Boras is going to work hard to get you as much money as possible. Therefore, it should be assumed that if a player chooses Boras as their agent, they are in the same position as he - looking to get as much money as possible.

Matsuzaka realizes his value in MLB. Look at the pitching market. The guy is VERY valuable. So, he hasn't pitched a game in the league. Most of the guys in the league right now that have pitched look like they've never even pitched in the minors.

Like I said, if the Red Sox don't give Boras and his client 15 million a year, there is no deal getting done. You can't go cheaper than 15 million when Gil Meche is getting 11.

[Stu]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

It's not fair to blame Boras first and not the pitcher. The pitcher chose him, and everyone knows that Boras is going to work hard to get you as much money as possible. Therefore, it should be assumed that if a player chooses Boras as their agent, they are in the same position as he - looking to get as much money as possible.

Matsuzaka realizes his value in MLB. Look at the pitching market. The guy is VERY valuable. So, he hasn't pitched a game in the league. Most of the guys in the league right now that have pitched look like they've never even pitched in the minors.

Like I said, if the Red Sox don't give Boras and his client 15 million a year, there is no deal getting done. You can't go cheaper than 15 million when Gil Meche is getting 11.

I agree that you have to blame Matsuzaka just as much as Boras. If he really wanted to pitch in MLB in 2007, Boras wouldn't be his agent right now.

While I agree Matsuzaka has value in MLB, he has no leverage. His alternative is to go back to Japan and pitch for $3 million a year for the next two years and take his chances in 2008. That's a pretty big gamble IMO.

I still think the Seibu Lions will have some say in this before it's all said and done. They're set to lose a lot of money if this negotiation fails.

[chippered]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

I agree that you have to blame Matsuzaka just as much as Boras. If he really wanted to pitch in MLB in 2007, Boras wouldn't be his agent right now.

While I agree Matsuzaka has value in MLB, he has no leverage. His alternative is to go back to Japan and pitch for $3 million a year for the next two years and take his chances in 2008. That's a pretty big gamble IMO.

I still think the Seibu Lions will have some say in this before it's all said and done. They're set to lose a lot of money if this negotiation fails.

I agree. I've read that Seibu would acutally be willing to give some of the posting fee back in an attempt to lure the Sox to sign him, this way they still get some of the money. In essence this move would help bridge the gap Boras and the Sox are currently dealing with salary wise.

[Stu]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

I agree. I've read that Seibu would acutally be willing to give some of the posting fee back in an attempt to lure the Sox to sign him, this way they still get some of the money. In essence this move would help bridge the gap Boras and the Sox are currently dealing with salary wise.

MLB has already said they won't allow that. I think the only thing Seibu could do is give Matsuzaka the money to entice him to sign. I'm not sure Selig could do anything about it in this case.

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

Not likely. If these negotiations fail, it will be Boras fault, not the Red Sox.

How so? The rumor as of late is that the RS offered $7-8 per year....what are you kidding me?
If you post up $50 mill just to import him, cough up the dough to sign him.
Also, money is a big deciding factor in today's world of sports, I still can't believe you question that.

[Stu]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

How so? The rumor as of late is that the RS offered $7-8 per year....what are you kidding me?
If you post up $50 mill just to import him, cough up the dough to sign him.
Also, money is a big deciding factor in today's world of sports, I still can't believe you question that.

It's called a negotiation, which Boras isn't doing. Let's say the Red Sox made an offer of around $8 mil. This is equal to what Contreras (another pitcher who had never pitched in the majors) got from the Yankees in 2003, so seems like a reasonable starting point for the Red Sox.

According to the same rumors, Boras hasn't made a counter offer yet and you think they'd determine that the Red Sox aren't negotiating in good faith? If they set that precedent, what's to prevent Boras from having his future Japanse clients from refusing to negotiate with the winning bidder to manipulate the posting process and get him on whatever team he wants?

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

In the same report, Boras was asking for at least 15 mill in this market...and this doesn't compare to Jose Contreras. We didn't pay any money in order to have him defect to us, just 32 mill to sign him. Not the same circumstances, I'm sorry.

[CMH]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

While I agree Matsuzaka has value in MLB, he has no leverage. His alternative is to go back to Japan and pitch for $3 million a year for the next two years and take his chances in 2008. That's a pretty big gamble IMO.

Yea, true, but I don't think he's worried about that. He knows that regardless of his performance next year in Japan, teams will be all over him as a Free Agent.

Maybe 15 million is too much. I'd say that if this gets done, Matsuzaka is signed for 40 million over 3 years with a Player Option of 15 million for the fourth year.

[Stu]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

In the same report, Boras was asking for at least 15 mill in this market...and this doesn't compare to Jose Contreras. We didn't pay any money in order to have him defect to us, just 32 mill to sign him. Not the same circumstances, I'm sorry.

So because the Red Sox paid money for the rights to negotiate with him, they should be forced to pay whatever Boras wants? Obviously 32 mil isn't going to get him which is why it's a starting point for negotiation. You don't just offer whatever the other guy wants right off the bat.

You didn't address my second point...

[Stu]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

Yea, true, but I don't think he's worried about that. He knows that regardless of his performance next year in Japan, teams will be all over him as a Free Agent.

Maybe 15 million is too much. I'd say that if this gets done, Matsuzaka is signed for 40 million over 3 years with a Player Option of 15 million for the fourth year.

I'd say it's a gamble in the sense that if he tears his labrum in the next two years he's going to have turned down about $50 million dollars. Maybe Boras is comfortable taking that chance, but if I'm Matsuzaka nows not the time to get greedy.

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

So because the Red Sox paid money for the rights to negotiate with him, they should be forced to pay whatever Boras wants? Obviously 32 mil isn't going to get him which is why it's a starting point for negotiation. You don't just offer whatever the other guy wants right off the bat.

You didn't address my second point...

According to the same rumors, Boras hasn't made a counter offer yet and you think they'd determine that the Red Sox aren't negotiating in good faith? If they set that precedent, what's to prevent Boras from having his future Japanse clients from refusing to negotiate with the winning bidder to manipulate the posting process and get him on whatever team he wants?

I thought I did, but to clarify it clearly - The Red Sox paid $50 mill just to speak to him, and now are offering 7-8 mill a year now? Are you mad or you think you are geniuses? If you are giving up 50 mill just to have the right to woo him with your contract offers, that must mean you think highly of him...I'm sorry but Boras is not in the wrong here...right from the start you should have knew what to expect from Boras' camp, especially when you give up 50 million...duh Boras and Matsuzaka are seeing $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Read the article I posted earlier from the Japanese press, and you would see that the Red Sox dug their own graves, now you have to lay in it....Or in other words, if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen!

[Stu]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

According to the same rumors, Boras hasn't made a counter offer yet and you think they'd determine that the Red Sox aren't negotiating in good faith? If they set that precedent, what's to prevent Boras from having his future Japanse clients from refusing to negotiate with the winning bidder to manipulate the posting process and get him on whatever team he wants?

I thought I did, but to clarify it clearly - The Red Sox paid $50 mill just to speak to him, and now are offering 7-8 mill a year now? Are you mad or you think you are geniuses? If you are giving up 50 mill just to have the right to woo him with your contract offers, that must mean you think highly of him...I'm sorry but Boras is not in the wrong here...right from the start you should have knew what to expect from Boras' camp, especially when you give up 50 million...duh Boras and Matsuzaka are seeing $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Read the article I posted earlier from the Japanese press, and you would see that the Red Sox dug their own graves, now you have to lay in it....Or in other words, if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen!

You still didn't answer the question:

If they set that precedent what's to prevent Boras from having his future Japanse clients from refusing to negotiate with the winning bidder to manipulate the posting process and get him on whatever team he wants?

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

You still didn't answer the question:

If they set that precedent what's to prevent Boras from having his future Japanse clients from refusing to negotiate with the winning bidder to manipulate the posting process and get him on whatever team he wants?

Geez, You keep missing the point - RED SOX OFFERED 50 MILLION JUST TO TALK TO HIM! At 7-8 mill per year, they would have to settle for at least 7 years to even match what they gave Seibu Lions....Did someone forget to tell the Red Sox and their fans, good talent costs money?

[K_GUN]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

Geez, You keep missing the point - RED SOX OFFERED 50 MILLION JUST TO TALK TO HIM! At 7-8 mill per year, they would have to settle for at least 7 years to even match what they gave Seibu Lions....Did someone forget to tell the Red Sox and their fans, good talent costs money?

and the fact that gil meche is getting 11/5 years...55$ total

PECOTA projects him like a darren dreifort type pitcher..FWIW

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

and the fact that gil meche is getting 11/5 years...55$ total

PECOTA projects him like a darren dreifort type pitcher..FWIW

At least you have a clue about ethics.