Marcus Giles released

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Marcus Giles released

As far as the Maddux mentoring thing, that came from several sources here, and it's sort of been his MO the last few years.

Overrating Barfield? Hardly, but you always like to put a positive spin on everything they do. The hole at 3rd base is to big to ignore? So you trade a potential all-star at what age 23, for a guy that hasn't played a lick yet? And now they've filled that hole? Now they have a question mark at 3rd, and downgraded themselves at 2nd. I've seen this song and dance before from the Padres in the form of Roberto Alomar, Fred McGriff for Melvin Nieves, Ozzie Smith for Gary Templeton, or letting Dave Winfield go without a fight. This is what the Padres have done, and it's what they have done for close to 3 decades now.

Well that MO hasn't worked so I don't see what the heck everyone is talking about. You don't sign pitchers to be pitching coaches to your young pitchers. That's the job of the pitching coach. If need be the young pitchers should learn by example and that's all. Let the guy do his job. David Wells was a fine example in 2004, in which Lawrence and Eaton were still mediocre that season regardless of having someone to "mentor" them.

And bkrich, you're not the only one talking up Barfield. He had a good season last year, no doubt about it, but everyone is acting like we traded a Chase Utley, a Dan Uggla. There's no doubt in my mind that he will turn out to be an All-Star second basemen, but like I said the guy we got in return is no slouch either. Do I really need to repeat everything that has been said on Kevin Kouzmanoff? Positive spin or not this is the same deal with Gonzo, who before this season hasn't really played a lick at all and was just as questionable as Barfield and Kouzmanoff when he was given a full season to play. At worst he gets the Nady treatment because of Branyan and his "veteranship", which hopefully Bud Black does not choose to emulate his predecessor when it comes to playing a rookie/youngster vs. veteran.

Positive spin, I love that word huh? Or perhaps I want to see how the move pan out before I start judging it. Sure I spun around Chris Young vs. Adam Eaton, Mike Cameron, Mike Piazza, etc. and that all turned out favorably for me. Let's not forget I never "spun" around the Giles for Bay/Perez trade and that I was lobbying for Vladimir Guerrero. You also do not see me putting a positive spin on trading away Ben Johnson now do you? I wanted to see him actually be a full-time starter and as you know I'm reluctant to see our young players go in a trade.

[bkrich83]

Re: Marcus Giles released

There's no doubt in my mind that he will turn out to be an All-Star second basemen, but like I said the guy we got in return is no slouch either.

How do you know? He hasn't played at all.

This has all the makings of Robbie Alomar part 2.

No moves, questionable offseason yet again, despite the promises from KT that they would be active this year.

Again I ask, are you sick and tired of rooting for a mediocre at best team yet?

[USF11]

Re: Marcus Giles released

How do you know? He hasn't played at all.

This has all the makings of Robbie Alomar part 2.

No moves, questionable offseason yet again, despite the promises from KT that they would be active this year.

Again I ask, are you sick and tired of rooting for a mediocre at best team yet?

Im not to familar with the Pods, how's their attendence?

Are they the type of team that expects to get player to come at a discount because of the nice weather?

[bkrich83]

Re: Marcus Giles released

Im not to familar with the Pods, how's their attendence?

Are they the type of team that expects to get player to come at a discount because of the nice weather?

Attendance has been good, like all teams with a new stadium.

They do expect an SD discount,but that rarely works out.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Marcus Giles released

Im not to familar with the Pods, how's their attendence?

Are they the type of team that expects to get player to come at a discount because of the nice weather?

Declining. The novelty of Petco Park has worn-off.

2) I don't think so, they did not make any offer to guys like Alfonso Soriano although you can say that because they did retain Hoffman and Giles to less than market value salaries.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Marcus Giles released

How do you know? He hasn't played at all.

This has all the makings of Robbie Alomar part 2.

No moves, questionable offseason yet again, despite the promises from KT that they would be active this year.

Again I ask, are you sick and tired of rooting for a mediocre at best team yet?

I can tell you don't even know who Kevin Kouzmanoff is. Read up on him instead of blindly calling him a bad acquisition because "he hasn't played at all." He was a September call-up last season for the Indians, who were showcasing him because they changed their focus to Andy Marte when the Red Sox traded for Coco Crisp. He had a Khalil Greene-like performance in limited playing time as a September call up, hitting .214 with 3 HRs, 5 walks to 12 strikeouts in 16 games. Not impressive right?

His minor league numbers tell otherwise, something we just had to rely on with Barfield as well (hoping he'd duplicate that same success).

- AVG / OBP / SLG -
2003 (SS): 54 games .272/.342/.437 – Just signed as 6th round draftee
2004 (Low-A): 123 games .330/.394/.526 – 35 2B, 5 3B, and 16 HR
2005 (High-A): 68 games .339/.401/.591 – 24 years old, but mashing
2006 (AA): 67 games .389/.449/.660 – 15 HR in 244 at-bats
2006 (AAA): 27 games .353/.409/.647 – 7 more HR in 102 at-bats

He's shown results in every single level in the minor leagues and scouts say this guy should have no problem hitting. Defensively he may eventually move to LF when Headley is ready because he's only average at best.

Josh Barfield hasn't played at all until last season. I guess we should've looked somewhere else since he projected to not do well since he's never played. All we had a minor league numbers and just hoped that he could match Mark Loretta's production. Why can't I do the same with Kevin Kouzmanoff? I gave Barfield his fair shake while everyone was panicking and questioning the Padres about trading away Mark Loretta for an unproven rookie.

And again another offseason, another "No moves, questionable offseason yet again, despite the promises from KT that they would be active this year." from you.

No moves huh?
This year we have:
Traded Josh Barfield for Kevin Kouzmanoff and Andrew Brown
Traded Ben Johnson and Jon Adkins for Royce Ring and Heath Bell
Signed Greg Maddux
Signed Marcus Giles
Signed Scott Strickland
Signed Jose Cruz Jr.
Re-signed Todd Walker, Doug Brocail, and Geoff Blum
And in the process have acquired six compensation picks giving us nine picks in the first 100 draft picks, and I won't complain because our farm system NEEDS that.

Questionable offseason again, but last year everyone's reaction makes them look like chicken little first guessing every trade. Mark Loretta for Doug Mirabelli, fortunately Theo Epstein was stupid enough to trade for that lump again and give us more of a fair deal. Eaton, Aki, and a minor leaguer for Gonzo, Young, and Sledge had people here calling it quits. Mike Cameron and Nady, people proclaimed it the biggest mistake and the Mets got a steal.

Questionable offseason but like I said, let the moves pan out before people quickly first guess them like they did all last season.

KT has been active, but I'm holding him accountable for not trying hard enough on getting Soriano and ultimately getting outbid by the Devil Rays for Iwamura and almost spending $20 million on Kei Igawa before the Yankees came in and swooped him up with their bid.

Maybe I'm sick of hearing all the pessimism harbored each place I go about the Padres. They may deserve it given their history, but I wouldn't call three straight-winning seasons mediocre, especially when the NL West stepped up last season. They blew their chance at putting themselves over the top this season for sure, but this team is still better than that pathetic 2005 squad and the sqauds of 1999-2003.

[bkrich83]

Re: Marcus Giles released

I know exact who Kevin Kouzmanoff is. And yes, he hasn't played at all. Unless you count 56 at bats as a true test. IF it is then he failed it. Who cares about his minor league stats. You remember the numbers Sean Burroughs put up in the minors.

They blew their chance at putting themselves over the top this season for sure, but this team is still better than that pathetic 2005 squad and the sqauds of 1999-2003.

I guess mediocrity is good enough for you. It's no longer for me. They spent YET ANOTHER offseason and failed to acquire anyone of consequence. Keep defending their front office and enjoy another decade of being an also ran. Maybe they'll spend some money and make a real attempt at winning again in 30 years when they want more money from the taxpayers for a new stadium, as that seems to be the only thing that motivates the front office.

You act as if last season was a successful one, in defending all the moves and lack thereof they made.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Marcus Giles released

I know exact who Kevin Kouzmanoff is. And yes, he hasn't played at all. Unless you count 56 at bats as a true test. IF it is then he failed it. Who cares about his minor league stats. You remember the numbers Sean Burroughs put up in the minors.

Yes he did and the Padres were hoping for more out of Sean Burroughs. Burroughs did not have power and they were hoping he'd develop it. Burroughs never changed his approach and became a one-dimensional slap-the-ball-right-into-the-LF'ers-glove hitter. Poor comparison. I guess Khalil failed then in his 60 at bats in 2003, I guess anyone who gets a September callup and gets 50-60 at bats failed then and has never played and should never play at all. Perfect logic.

I guess mediocrity is good enough for you. It's no longer for me. They spent YET ANOTHER offseason and failed to acquire anyone of consequence. Keep defending their front office and enjoy another decade of being an also ran. Maybe they'll spend some money and make a real attempt at winning again in 30 years when they want more money from the taxpayers for a new stadium, as that seems to be the only thing that motivates the front office.

Again bkrich, where have I said mediocrity is good enough for me? You like making that claim but you don't have anything to prove it.

The very quote you have there bkrich is an opinion but nowhere did I SAY that I was content with where the team is now did I?

You act as if last season was a successful one, in defending all the moves and lack thereof they made.

Twenty-nine teams fail each year, one is successful. I'm not acting like last seasons is a successful one because we didn't win a WS. Tell me where I said it was successful since you pointed it out.

Everyone was quick to first guess every move last offseason except me. Sure I could've been preaching to the choir here agreeing with you all, but that's too easy here on these forums to continuously bash a team with uncontested claims.

[bkrich83]

Re: Marcus Giles released

Yes he did and the Padres were hoping for more out of Sean Burroughs. Burroughs did not have power and they were hoping he'd develop it. Burroughs never changed his approach and became a one-dimensional slap-the-ball-right-into-the-LF'ers-glove hitter. Poor comparison. I guess Khalil failed then in his 60 at bats in 2003, I guess anyone who gets a September callup and gets 50-60 at bats failed then and has never played and should never play at all. Perfect logic.

You missed the point. He hasn't played, and yet you claim as if it's fact that he will put up better numbers than Barfield. Fact is, we sent a young player who proved he can play, and will only get better for a player that we have no idea what he will do. You say look at his minor league numbers. But what do they prove? Minor league numbers mean nothing.

Again bkrich, where have I said mediocrity is good enough for me? You like making that claim but you don't have anything to prove it.

The very quote you have there bkrich is an opinion but nowhere did I SAY that I was content with where the team is now did I?

The jist of your previous post, was all the moves you brought up the Padres made were a success. Yet the team was just as mediocre and just as unsuccesful in the post season, for the exact same reasons as they were the year before.

Twenty-nine teams fail each year, one is successful. I'm not acting like last seasons is a successful one because we didn't win a WS. Tell me where I said it was successful since you pointed it out.

Everyone was quick to first guess every move last offseason except me. Sure I could've been preaching to the choir here agreeing with you all, but that's too easy here on these forums to continuously bash a team with uncontested claims.

There's no uncontested claims. The team remained the same mediocre, non-hitting team it was the year before. We can only thank the most watered down NL in the past century for 2 post season appearances. Even then, in those two years 1-6 in the postseason, and it was quite obvious both years the team we played in the postseason was superior in every aspect of the game and it wasn't even close.

I guess that's where we differ, the same mediocre team, that shows no will to make the moves needed to be a championship caliber team seems to be good enough for you, from your posts on the subject the last two years. It no longer good enough for me.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Marcus Giles released

You missed the point. He hasn't played, and yet you claim as if it's fact that he will put up better numbers than Barfield. Fact is, we sent a young player who proved he can play, and will only get better for a player that we have no idea what he will do. You say look at his minor league numbers. But what do they prove? Minor league numbers mean nothing.

Of course minor league numbers mean nothing in the big leagues. If that was the case Xavier Nady and Sean Burroughs would still be Padres.

How is a player going to prove himself when he's not given a chance to play? Last year we gave the second base job to an unproven Josh Barfield. Before then we didn't know if Barfield was even ready and people were questioning trading Loretta and not giving Barfield a callup in the previous September. The only way you can find out how good or bad a player is is if you give them a chance to prove themselves.

Irregardless of his minor league stats, I am sure that Kouzmanoff will outproduce Josh Barfield easily, just like when I said Barfield was going to outproduce Loretta last year.

I was right with Barfield which is why I'm confident Kouzmanoff will be as good as I think he is. Poor logic I know, but when you throw so many darts at third base since our last productive third basemen worth noting (Nevin), eventually one will hit the spot.

The jist of your previous post, was all the moves you brought up the Padres made were a success. Yet the team was just as mediocre and just as unsuccesful in the post season, for the exact same reasons as they were the year before.

The MOVES they made were successful, but the team didn't win a World Series and failed. Nowhere did I say those moves were indicative of the Padres season "success."

However, if moves are successful they should ultimately lead a team to a successful season.

There's no uncontested claims. The team remained the same mediocre, non-hitting team it was the year before. We can only thank the most watered down NL in the past century for 2 post season appearances. Even then, in those two years 1-6 in the postseason, and it was quite obvious both years the team we played in the postseason was superior in every aspect of the game and it wasn't even close.

I guess that's where we differ, the same mediocre team, that shows no will to make the moves needed to be a championship caliber team seems to be good enough for you, from your posts on the subject the last two years. It no longer good enough for me.

The uncontested claims would be everyone criticizing the Padres without anyone arguing with them. I'm sorry if it came out different than what I intended it to be.

Actually, there's only one difference between this team and the Cardinals that made a difference in those series. Star power. And until they land someone capable of providing that, it ain't happening. Albert Pujols was the difference that series, and the front office definitely needs to make note about that. That I absolutely agree with the Cardinals playing better in every faucet of the game in those two series.

I'm just not as critical about the Padres as you are and there are some things I have a different opinion on than you, especially with Kevin Kouzmanoff, but I'm not going to fool myself that this club is good enough to win anything, maybe another division title with how the NL West is shaping up again, but until they get someone who actually can make a difference in the lineup just with his presence alone and actually make pitchers respect him, our defense and pitching can be tops in the league if it wants, we're simply not going to be serious contenders if our offense can't keep it's end of the deal.

[bkrich83]

Re: Marcus Giles released

but I'm not going to fool myself that this club is good enough to win anything, maybe another division title with how the NL West is shaping up again, but until they get someone who actually can make a difference in the lineup just with his presence alone and actually make pitchers respect him, our defense and pitching can be tops in the league if it wants, we're simply not going to be serious contenders if our offense can't keep it's end of the deal.

This is my problem with this team. KT came out and said the Pads were going to be big time players in the FA market. Unless you count Cruz and Maddux as big time signings, I don't think he lived up to his word. It's obvious by their actions, that they have no intentions in acquiring that one big time bat, that can drive the offense. And in effect, it's quite obvious they have zero commitment to being a championship caliber team.

You don't have to look any further than 1998. Greg Vaughn's big bat carried that offense, when Gwynn was hurt and Cammy was in a prolonged slump for 2 months that summer.

I just can't defend this team anymore, they just don't seem to care. When in game 1 of the postseason your opponent has Albert Pujols hitting third and you have Todd Walker hitting third, it's obvious you aren't on the same level talent wise.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Marcus Giles released

This is my problem with this team. KT came out and said the Pads were going to be big time players in the FA market. Unless you count Cruz and Maddux as big time signings, I don't think he lived up to his word. It's obvious by their actions, that they have no intentions in acquiring that one big time bat, that can drive the offense. And in effect, it's quite obvious they have zero commitment to being a championship caliber team.

Yes, those players weren't exactly who I wanted to see as our big signings and it's inexcusable on their part with failing to acquire a big bat.

The market may be ridiculous, but you have to pay the money for the talent. I wouldn't want Soriano locked up for eight years, but the amount he's getting is going to look really cheap when guys like Miguel Cabrera hit free agency. I really disagree with holding back because of the market and that too is my beef with the FO. You had $22 million to spend with $8 million used up in picking up Cameron's option and buying out the other players with option years on them and you mean to tell me the best effort they can make is a phone call to Soriano's agent?

You don't have to look any further than 1998. Greg Vaughn's big bat carried that offense, when Gwynn was hurt and Cammy was in a prolonged slump for 2 months that summer.

I just can't defend this team anymore, they just don't seem to care. When in game 1 of the postseason your opponent has Albert Pujols hitting third and you have Todd Walker hitting third, it's obvious you aren't on the same level talent wise.

Haha, the only the Padres could get a bat like that nowadays is if they can fleece the Reds for Adam Dunn with just Scott Linebrink (rumored, ain't happening though) or if someone has a breakout year. I don't see it happening any time soon but the importance of having someone with a big bat in the lineup is magnified in the postseason regardless of which series he might make the biggest impact in.