Is Craig Biggio A HOFer?

[chippered]

Re: Is Craig Biggio A HOFer?

Unfortunetly, most fans rely on milestones for validation of a players worth. Biggio's in with or without the 3000 hits, IMO. Read up on him. compare his stats to others, based on a stats actual worth, and your perspective may change.

[DrJones]

Re: Is Craig Biggio A HOFer?

I can't really argue with 3000 hits, but something still doesn't sit well with me. A lot of people knock some players for putting up #s over a very long period of time but never being great players (see Fred McGriff, and to some extent Sammy Sosa) but they give Biggio a free pass on that one. He lasted a long time, but he was never spectacular. I don't think he was even the best player on his team at any point in his career. A lot of his support seems to come from sentimental reasons that really shouldn't affect whether you're a hall of famer or not. Yeah it's nice he played for the Astros all this time, but that shouldn't determine it one way or another. IMO he's a very borderline HOF, but this reeks of double standards and i don't like it.

edit: just for clarification, i'm referring mostly to the sentiment i've been reading from sports talking heads and writers, not really the people on this board for the most part.

If Biggio had put up the same numbers as a 1B or corner outfielder, then sure, he's borderline. But Biggio is one of the best second basemen of all time -- that carries a huge amount of weight. If the Crime Dog had put up his numbers in a defensively valuable position (ie, 2B, SS, C, plus CF and 3B to some extent), he'd be a first ballot HOF'er.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Is Craig Biggio A HOFer?

Unfortunetly, most fans rely on milestones for validation of a players worth.

Considering these benchmarks (500 HR club, 3000 hit club) measure elite status, I think it is valid to compare HOF-worthy players to them.

[ZM Punk]

Re: Is Craig Biggio A HOFer?

No question. He has been the best NL second basemen since Ryno, and he is definitely a sure fire Hall of Famer. Possibly first ballot.

[chippered]

Re: Is Craig Biggio A HOFer?

Considering these benchmarks (500 HR club, 3000 hit club) measure elite status, I think it is valid to compare HOF-worthy players to them.

Comparing them is fine, but I dont like to rely on them. There is just so much more to stats than just their face value.

IMO, a one dimensional player that hits 500 homers is much less valuable than a multi talented player such as Biggio. He wont hit 500 homers, but he'll average great numbers in multiple statistical categories, creating a well rounded player that brings more to the table. Just because he didnt hit some predetermined statistical plateau doesnt mean isnt as great as those that do.

[Blzer]

Re: Is Craig Biggio A HOFer?

Comparing them is fine, but I dont like to rely on them. There is just so much more to stats than just their face value.

IMO, a one dimensional player that hits 500 homers is much less valuable than a multi talented player such as Biggio. He wont hit 500 homers, but he'll average great numbers in multiple statistical categories, creating a well rounded player that brings more to the table. Just because he didnt hit some predetermined statistical plateau doesnt mean isnt as great as those that do.

That's why I don't think Sosa, who will very well reach 600 home runs, is not an instant guarantee to the Hall. That may just be me, though.

[DrJones]

Re: Is Craig Biggio A HOFer?

That's why I don't think Sosa, who will very well reach 600 home runs, is not an instant guarantee to the Hall. That may just be me, though.

If Sosa doesn't make it, it'll be because of steroid whispers, not because of his one-dimensional talents.

[Blzer]

Re: Is Craig Biggio A HOFer?

If Sosa doesn't make it, it'll be because of steroid whispers, not because of his one-dimensional talents.

True, and very unfortunate. I would keep McGwire out of the Hall for the same reasons as Sosa, and I'm not regarding steroids even one bit. Unless you are the record-holder of a major offensive stat or you are overly dominant in more than one dependent stat, you need to be one of those four- or five-tool players (at least at one long period in your career) to be looking at first-ballot status.

See, guys like Bonds will make the HOF because of his tools... having so many gold gloves, and being a 500/500 man in HR/SB. He may also reach 3,000 hits, like Biggio. Biggio can have 3000/300/300 in H/HR/SB. That's the three offensive tools right there (though others can make the claim that he is not necessarily one that hits for power), and the man can field. Again, if Biggio reaches this feat, he will be only one of two players in history with this (Willie Mays being the other).

Sosa only has two outstanding numbers: 599 and 2261. I'm sure people know which offensive statistic the latter happens to be.