Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

I'd argue his best year was '96. .308 avg, 42 bombs, 40 SB's, 129 RBI, 151 BB, 76 K's, 122 R's. Also won a Gold Glove that year.

2004: .362 AVG (won the NL batting title), .812 SLG, .609 OBP, 1.422 OPS, 232 BB, 45 HRs, 101 RBIs, more home runs than strikeouts, more times on base than official at-bats.

[SportsTop]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

2004: .362 AVG (won the NL batting title), .812 SLG, .609 OBP, 1.422 OPS, 232 BB, 45 HRs, 101 RBIs, more home runs than strikeouts, more times on base than official at-bats.

We're talking pre-steroid years ('86-'97).

[bkrich83]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

2004: .362 AVG (won the NL batting title), .812 SLG, .609 OBP, 1.422 OPS, 232 BB, 45 HRs, 101 RBIs, more home runs than strikeouts, more times on base than official at-bats.

Didn't run the bases very well that year actually was a liability on the bases, and probably gave up more runs than he accounted for in the field that year.

I'll take '96 Bonds over '04 Bonds any day.

[chippered]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

If we take out bonds 2001 season in which he hit 73 bombs, does our perception of him change? Of course we would have to assume that the league wouldnt have been afraid to pitch to him fearing his 73 homer season. The guy has always been strong. He had great seasons before 73 homers.

Honestly, I think the rest of the league has contributed to his legacy more than they should have with all of the intentional walks and the refusal to pitch to him.

[TheGamingChef]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

I refuse to put Bonds on my list on principle. The guy cheated, that's all there is to it. He can't be one of the best players of all time when he didn't play the game fairly - I don't care how good he was before he cheated.

Here's my list:

1. Ted Williams
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Honus Wagner

[ubernoob]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

Steroids or not, Bonds is a top-3 all-time player in my book. I highly doubt 'roiding up/bulking up a ton helps HR power. This is all on an assumption that Bonds did use steroids, which has never been proven.

I'm not a huge Bonds fan, but I am a Bonds supporter. You still have to hit the ball. Plus, this is assuming Bonds did take performance enhancing drugs, it really helped him with what, because I don't think it was home runs. Every shot I have seen BB hit has been absolutely crushed and it really wasn't 1-2 feet over the wall. Once he made contact you knew that ball was gone.

Still gotta hit the ball. He has a quick bat, great eye, and just an overall presence about him in the batters box.

[NYJets]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

Not totally true. Look at '96 for example. .308 average. 40/40 HR/SB, 129 RBI, and won a Gold Glove.

Excellent all around numbers. But not Babe Ruth hitting numbers. Ruth had around 10 seasons better than that just counting the hitting numbers. So I'd argue that pre-steroids, Bonds could not hit like Ruth.

After steroids, he had some of the greatest offensive seasons ever. But he wasn't the same all around player then.

[Psyblast]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

I highly doubt 'roiding up/bulking up a ton helps HR power.

I still find it amazing that there are people who think like this.

[SportsTop]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

Excellent all around numbers. But not Babe Ruth hitting numbers. Ruth had around 10 seasons better than that just counting the hitting numbers. So I'd argue that pre-steroids, Bonds could not hit like Ruth.

After steroids, he had some of the greatest offensive seasons ever. But he wasn't the same all around player then.

That is a point that could be debated until the end of time.

If Ruth played in an era of integration then it is a totally different story.

[bkrich83]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

Excellent all around numbers. But not Babe Ruth hitting numbers. Ruth had around 10 seasons better than that just counting the hitting numbers. So I'd argue that pre-steroids, Bonds could not hit like Ruth.

After steroids, he had some of the greatest offensive seasons ever. But he wasn't the same all around player then.

Ruth was never a 40/40 guy, plus it's tough to compare different era's. Ruth never played in an integrated league, and I often question how good the pitching was, I believe Ruth was swinging a 42 oz. bat don't think you could get away with that now.

Even before the 'roids, I think Bonds was the better player than Ruth. But maybe that's just me.

[ubernoob]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

I still find it amazing that there are people who think like this.

It's because the mechanics of hitting a baseball have very very little to do with arm strength.

[SportsTop]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

It's because the mechanics of hitting a baseball have very very little to do with arm strength.

So you are saying steroids doesn't better your eyesight? And that the bat speed generated by muscle doesn't effect the distance the ball will travel or how hard it is hit?

[Psyblast]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

It's because the mechanics of hitting a baseball have very very little to do with arm strength.

Right, I'm sure Mark McGwire took andro for fun then.

[ubernoob]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

So you're saying that bat speed, the hips, and the step have less to do with homeruns than arm strength? Watch someone who tries to hit with all arms, because I guarantee it won't be a home run.

[SportsTop]

Re: Five Greatest Position Players of All Time

So you're saying that bat speed, the hips, and the step have less to do with homeruns than arm strength? Watch someone who tries to hit with all arms, because I guarantee it won't be a home run.

Last I checked steroids affect more than just the muscles in your arms.