the Andruw Jones era is over.......

[ehh]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

Jones has come a long way from this...

[ryanm1058123]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

Jones has come a long way from this...

[DonkeyJote]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

I think Jones will have success again. The two seasons before this one, he hit 92 home runs. And he isn't really slow. He doesn't run nearly as well as he used to, but he is far from slow. He is still one of the best CF's (defensively) in the game. It's not speed that makes him good in CF, it's his first step, and his first step is better than anyone's. And he was just too impatient this year, trying to do way too much. He will relax and do a better job when he is in a multi-year deal. And if he can average 25 home runs a year for the next six years, he'll retire with 500. And he hit 26 this year in a down year. He averages 30 a year for his career. He's never going to hit for a high average. He'll go back to being a .260 hitter for 35 hr's and very good defense in CF.

All that said, the Braves are smart to let him go. Boras wants Vernon Wells money, and the Braves simply can't afford that. Liberty Media wants them to cut down the $89 million payroll. And they already have a lot of big contracts. Mike Hampton is owed $15 million in the last year of his mammoth deal, and the Braves are on the hook for all of it. Chipper is owed $11 mil. Renteria will make $9 million (if he isn't traded). Teixeria, if not signed long term, will likely earn in the neighborhood of $12 million in arbitration. Tim Hudson makes 13 mill. Smoltz will make $14 mil. Dotel has a $5.5 million player option (which can, and likely will be voided by the Braves though). Mike Gonzalez is expected to be resigned at the same 2.35 million he made this year. I believe Soriano is arbitration-eligible, and he'll get a raise from 1.2M. But not counting Dotel and Soriano, all that adds to 76 million. There is no way they could afford Andruw.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Braves aquired Dejesus (them and the royals seem to really like dealing with each other), but I don't think he'd be a great fit. He is solid defensively, but he is not a very good hitter. He only had a .351 OBP, and only 10 sb's. Add in just 7 hrs and a .260 average, and I don't really see what he can bring to the table. But he is cheap - only $2.5M next year.

As for Aaron Rowand, he would be a very nice option. But he is going to get a very nice raise, and I don't think the Phillies would let him go, unless he asks for too much money, which would also move the Braves out of contention for him.

To me, Mike Cameron is just a poor man's Andruw Jones, with a little less power, and slightly more speed. He is only a .251 career hitter, and he strikes out a ton. If the Braves are not going to have Jones, they might as well move in a whole new direction. They already have Chipper, Teixiera, Francouer, and McCann, so they don't really need Cameron's 25 homeruns. They need an onbase guy.

One guy I like is Willy Taveras. The Rockies seem to like Spillbrough, so I would think Taveras would be available. He showed improvement this year, batting .320 and stealing 33 bases in just 97 games. He would work nicely at the top of the Atlanta lineup.

Coco Crisp would be an okay fit. He wouldn't be the leadoff hitter, but he could provide speed at the bottom of the lineup. He is also a very good defender, and is cheaper than either Cameron or Rowand.

If he could stay healthy, Rocco Baldelli could be a good, cheap option in a trade.

I also would like to see the Braves bring Kenny Lofton back. He is an acceptable defender, is still very capable of being a productive leadoff hitter (.296 avg in 490 abs), and has been with the team before. He had a very good season in the first year at Turner Field in 1997. He would fill multiple needs at once. All in all, I hope the Braves pursue either Lofton or Taveras.

[CMH]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

Atlanta can have Damon if they want.


I sure don't.

[bravosfan]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

I'm actually afraid of that... there was that rumor before the deadline.

And I'll pass on Taveras. Saw him play a lot in Houston, he'd be a big downgrade defensively IMO.

Lofton clearly wasn't very popular his first time around, don't expect they'd want to revisit that...

The Braves for some reason seem to have a constant interest in Coco Crisp, I figure it'll either be him or Cameron. I wouldn't mind DeJesus, though. Rather him than Crisp, at least.

[ryanm1058123]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

Willy Tavarez is not a regular, and definitely not a leadoff hitter.

[rsox]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

I'm not sure that San Diego lets Cameron go. LF was a huge hole for the Padres for much of the season (Scott Hairston may have secured that job for next season) and they did not get great production out of RF either so i think the Padres may try to re-sign Cameron.

Since Baldelli missed pretty much all of last season (played only 35 games) i imagine that the Devil Rays asking price may have gone down. Baldelli is worth the risk if you can get him for low level prospects.

Aaron Rowand is going to get a lot of attention this winter because of the numbers he put up and because of his balls-out defense. He is the third best available CF behind Jones and Torii Hunter.

I would not rule out Torii Hunter either. He is said to be looking for a deal worth around $70 million. Hunter is a bargain compared to the $100 million+ that Jones is looking for and i can't imagine too many Braves fans that wouldn't want to see Hunter patrolling CF in Atlanta.

[BaseballCtchr]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

I think Jones will have success again. The two seasons before this one, he hit 92 home runs. And he isn't really slow. He doesn't run nearly as well as he used to, but he is far from slow. He is still one of the best CF's (defensively) in the game. It's not speed that makes him good in CF, it's his first step, and his first step is better than anyone's. And he was just too impatient this year, trying to do way too much. He will relax and do a better job when he is in a multi-year deal. And if he can average 25 home runs a year for the next six years, he'll retire with 500. And he hit 26 this year in a down year. He averages 30 a year for his career. He's never going to hit for a high average. He'll go back to being a .260 hitter for 35 hr's and very good defense in CF.

All that said, the Braves are smart to let him go. Boras wants Vernon Wells money, and the Braves simply can't afford that. Liberty Media wants them to cut down the $89 million payroll. And they already have a lot of big contracts. Mike Hampton is owed $15 million in the last year of his mammoth deal, and the Braves are on the hook for all of it. Chipper is owed $11 mil. Renteria will make $9 million (if he isn't traded). Teixeria, if not signed long term, will likely earn in the neighborhood of $12 million in arbitration. Tim Hudson makes 13 mill. Smoltz will make $14 mil. Dotel has a $5.5 million player option (which can, and likely will be voided by the Braves though). Mike Gonzalez is expected to be resigned at the same 2.35 million he made this year. I believe Soriano is arbitration-eligible, and he'll get a raise from 1.2M. But not counting Dotel and Soriano, all that adds to 76 million. There is no way they could afford Andruw.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Braves aquired Dejesus (them and the royals seem to really like dealing with each other), but I don't think he'd be a great fit. He is solid defensively, but he is not a very good hitter. He only had a .351 OBP, and only 10 sb's. Add in just 7 hrs and a .260 average, and I don't really see what he can bring to the table. But he is cheap - only $2.5M next year.

As for Aaron Rowand, he would be a very nice option. But he is going to get a very nice raise, and I don't think the Phillies would let him go, unless he asks for too much money, which would also move the Braves out of contention for him.

To me, Mike Cameron is just a poor man's Andruw Jones, with a little less power, and slightly more speed. He is only a .251 career hitter, and he strikes out a ton. If the Braves are not going to have Jones, they might as well move in a whole new direction. They already have Chipper, Teixiera, Francouer, and McCann, so they don't really need Cameron's 25 homeruns. They need an onbase guy.

One guy I like is Willy Taveras. The Rockies seem to like Spillbrough, so I would think Taveras would be available. He showed improvement this year, batting .320 and stealing 33 bases in just 97 games. He would work nicely at the top of the Atlanta lineup.

Coco Crisp would be an okay fit. He wouldn't be the leadoff hitter, but he could provide speed at the bottom of the lineup. He is also a very good defender, and is cheaper than either Cameron or Rowand.

If he could stay healthy, Rocco Baldelli could be a good, cheap option in a trade.

I also would like to see the Braves bring Kenny Lofton back. He is an acceptable defender, is still very capable of being a productive leadoff hitter (.296 avg in 490 abs), and has been with the team before. He had a very good season in the first year at Turner Field in 1997. He would fill multiple needs at once. All in all, I hope the Braves pursue either Lofton or Taveras.

First Jones is not one of the best defensive CFs anymore. He is lazy and his range is eroding. He only makes diving plays that make him look good because his jumps are soo bad.

I have heard Liberty Media wants to increase to 95 million. Even heard they said they wanted the Braves to be like the Red Sox. Not really sure what that was even supposed to mean.

And the reason KC and ATL have a good relationship is JS and Dayton Moore who was the assistant GM in ATL before going to KC.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

I don't think Hunter is a good fit at all. He is very much a middle of the order guy, and they already have a ton of those, and he is quite pricy. He is a good bargain, yes, but the Braves already have $76M committed to next year, just $13M short of the number they were at this season, which they are being asked to trim. Since they also need a starting pitcher and will likely think about resigning Francouer to a long-term deal similar to McCann's I think $70M is WAY out of their price range.

As for Taveras, I haven't seen him play enough to judge him defensively. But offensively he puts up decent numbers. He hit .320 for the Rockies with a .367 OBP. His career OBP of .338 isn't very good, but he is still young, so they improvement he showed in Colorado looks for real. And he has good speed. He could use a bit more power, but other than that, his numbers look similar to those of Rafael Furcal whose career high OBP was .369, I would take him in a heartbeat (though maybe not for that salary). He won't light the world on fire, but he is also VERY cheap, which is important to the Braves now that they are under thriftyer ownership.

Offensively, Taveras at .320/.367/.382 was better than Dejesus (.260/.351/.372). If you prorate Taveras' numbers to Dejesus' 605 abs, Taveras would have only 27 extrabase hits to Dejesus' 45, but Taveras would also have 190 hits (163 singles) to Dejesus' 157 hits (112 singles). His 33 SB would also convert to 53, where Dejesus only had 10 sb's. So even if Taveras isn't the answer, I definetly don't think Dejesus is. Especially since he is more expensive.

I also agree that there is a very good chance that Mike Cameron stays in San Diego. They need him. He is one of their best bats, and is really their only good defender in the outfielder.

As for Baldelli, he would be a lot easier to get than Dejesus at this point, but he is likely a little more suited as a RFer and offensively he is quite a bit overrated. His career high in homeruns is 16 in 357 abs, so for a full season, so he is probably only about a 20-25 hr guy most years. He also never draws walks, only having 83 in 1656 career AB's.

As for Crisp, he has played really poorly the last two years in Boston, and he makes 3.8M as opposed to Dejesus' $2M, Baldelli's $750k, and Taveras' $500k. Cost is more of an issue for the Braves now than ever.

As for Willie Harris, he likely gets a shot at a bench spot in spring training, but he was a two-month wonder. He only hit .241 in July, .213 in August, and .128 in September. They really liked his speed, which why I think they go for a speedster in CF to bat leadoff. If they could get that, with Renteria batting 2nd (unless he gets traded, when it would be Johnson and Escobar), and then the boppers, that's a pretty good lineup.

And Brandon Jones and Matt Diaz will likely platoon in LF. Bobby really likes Matt, so he won't get pushed aside unless he is seriously outplayed.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

First Jones is not one of the best defensive CFs anymore. He is lazy and his range is eroding. He only makes diving plays that make him look good because his jumps are soo bad.

I have heard Liberty Media wants to increase to 95 million. Even heard they said they wanted the Braves to be like the Red Sox. Not really sure what that was even supposed to mean.

And the reason KC and ATL have a good relationship is JS and Dayton Moore who was the assistant GM in ATL before going to KC.

First of all, yes Dayton Moore is the reason, he knows the farm system well, and it is just easier for him to evaluate the Braves' talent than that of other teams.

As for Andruw's defense, no he is no longer elite. He is still in the upper half of the league, and he does have 368 career homers. He is not near worth $20, but he is the best on the market.

And there are rumors that Liberty Media wants to take a "deep cut" into the Braves payroll (it was reported in the Philadelphia Daily News). The Braves themselves are disputing this, but that could be PR. Either way though, it is prudent to save money when you can. I believe that they should not be looking at the best players, but the best values.

[Sportsforever]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

First Jones is not one of the best defensive CFs anymore. He is lazy and his range is eroding. He only makes diving plays that make him look good because his jumps are soo bad.

I have heard Liberty Media wants to increase to 95 million. Even heard they said they wanted the Braves to be like the Red Sox. Not really sure what that was even supposed to mean.

And the reason KC and ATL have a good relationship is JS and Dayton Moore who was the assistant GM in ATL before going to KC.

Do you watch Atlanta play? Andruw doesn't have the range he had 5 years ago, but he still is the best in the game and it is because of the jumps he gets on balls.

[Sandman42]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

Do you watch Atlanta play? Andruw doesn't have the range he had 5 years ago, but he still is the best in the game and it is because of the jumps he gets on balls.

Andruw Jones had the third worst Range Factor out of all the CF's that qualified. He gets by on his reputation.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

Andruw Jones had the third worst Range Factor out of all the CF's that qualified. He gets by on his reputation.

You mean zone rating. He was actually 10th of 18 in RF, 3rd of 8 in the NL. But defensive statistics are pretty bad at this point. I agree that he has fallen off, but the two players below him in zone rating are Ichiro and Gary Matthews - I'm sorry, but these are not the three worst regular CF's in baseball.

[bravosfan]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

And there are rumors that Liberty Media wants to take a "deep cut" into the Braves payroll (it was reported in the Philadelphia Daily News). The Braves themselves are disputing this, but that could be PR. Either way though, it is prudent to save money when you can. I believe that they should not be looking at the best players, but the best values.

This is from the AJC story when the sale was announced:

Liberty pledged in writing not to cut the Braves' operating budget and player payroll below the levels of the past three seasons. That would mean a player payroll "floor" of around $80 million. Whether to increase the payroll beyond that would be up to McGuirk. At some level of increase, approval of a Liberty-controlled board apparently would be required.

[BaseballCtchr]

Re: the Andruw Jones era is over.......

Do you watch Atlanta play? Andruw doesn't have the range he had 5 years ago, but he still is the best in the game and it is because of the jumps he gets on balls.

Uhh yeah I watch Atlanta play. I dont know how many times I watched people say he made a good play when really his jump were poor. And you would have to be an ATL homer to say he is the best in the game in the OF.


Oh yeah and keep Baldelli away from Atlanta. He has been hurt way to much the past two years.