Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

[snepp]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

Good God, USSM is awful. Bunch o' smart *** douche bags who think think they know it all. What a horrible existence.

Why? Because you're incapable of debating their analysis without resorting to calling them douche bags?

[spit_bubble]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

Why? Because you're incapable of debating their analysis without resorting to calling them douche bags?

No. Because they're a bunch o' smart *** douche bags who think they know it all. I used to read their stuff all the time and it became readily apparent that like many a seamhead they too easily get lost in numbers. I remember pointing out to them that that type of analysis, while important, is only part of the equation... And they could only respond with stubbornness, the very same type of stubbornness they claim that so many GMs have today. It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Seamheads need to realize, and Bill James will tell you this himself, that the numbers are merely a certain type of information... The kind futures traders would call technical analysis. A good futures trader also uses fundamental analysis, which gives you the information that can't be found in numbers. If you're foolish enough to only rely on technical analysis and then make proclamations based upon such a half assed approach, which pretty much is always the case with USSM, then you are smart *** douche bag who think they know it all.

EDIT:

I should add that USSM spends too much of their time dissing people like Geoff Baker and Larry Stone. Sure, those two guys might be wrong more often than they are right, but so what?! Just present your data and STFU.

And please realize that I value the relatively newfound approach to viewing the game through "unconventional" numbers, and even find it interesting to a certain degree. It's just that sites like USSM often take it too far and almost present themselves as holier than thou.

[BunnyHardaway]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

Nolan Reimold in Left, Adam Jones in Center, and Nick in Right.

Scary.

[devilsjaw]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

Nolan Reimold in Left, Adam Jones in Center, and Nick in Right.

Scary.

If only they could pitch too.

[BunnyHardaway]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

If only they could pitch too.

They have a ridiculous amount of pitching depth in the minor leagues though...

Adam Loewen
Matt Albers
Radhames Liz
Troy Patton
Chris Tillman
Tony Butler
Brandon Erbe
David Hernandez
Chorye Spoone
Jake Arrieta
Tim Bascom
Garrett Olson
Jason Berken
Pedro Beato
Brad Bergesen


All 25 or under. From Roch Kubatko's Baltimore Sun blog:

"I'd probably take them over any other group in baseball," the scout said. "That's unbelievable."

[rsox]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

All the young pitching talent in the world won't make much of a difference in the future unless Angelos either sells the team to someone who wants to win or changes his philosophy and puts money into building a contender himself.

[keRplunK]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

No. Because they're a bunch o' smart *** douche bags who think they know it all. I used to read their stuff all the time and it became readily apparent that like many a seamhead they too easily get lost in numbers. I remember pointing out to them that that type of analysis, while important, is only part of the equation... And they could only respond with stubbornness, the very same type of stubbornness they claim that so many GMs have today. It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Seamheads need to realize, and Bill James will tell you this himself, that the numbers are merely a certain type of information... The kind futures traders would call technical analysis. A good futures trader also uses fundamental analysis, which gives you the information that can't be found in numbers. If you're foolish enough to only rely on technical analysis and then make proclamations based upon such a half assed approach, which pretty much is always the case with USSM, then you are smart *** douche bag who think they know it all.

EDIT:

I should add that USSM spends too much of their time dissing people like Geoff Baker and Larry Stone. Sure, those two guys might be wrong more often than they are right, but so what?! Just present your data and STFU.

And please realize that I value the relatively newfound approach to viewing the game through "unconventional" numbers, and even find it interesting to a certain degree. It's just that sites like USSM often take it too far and almost present themselves as holier than thou.

It's clear that you haven't read the site much. Dave Cameron values scouting that goes beyond pure numbers. He doesn't discount scouting, he advocates a combination of tools in order to get a decent evaluation of a player. One perfect example is Balentien. Balentien's numbers suggest he is ready for the major leagues, but Dave doesn't think he's ready to contribute because of his skills, not his numbers.

It's rather unfortunate that you resort to name calling when you clearly haven't read the site much at all. They can be somewhat "arrogant" but that comes out because of people who haven't done the work to truly understand their arguments.

And they actually like Larry Stone a ton, and they like Baker as well but they do disagree with his analysis more often than Stone.

[BunnyHardaway]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

All the young pitching talent in the world won't make much of a difference in the future unless Angelos either sells the team to someone who wants to win or changes his philosophy and puts money into building a contender himself.

I'm as hard on Angelos as anyone, but do you think he would have allowed a total rebuild if he didn't want to win at some point?

You're reaching big time.

[Seahawk76]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

It's clear that you haven't read the site much. Dave Cameron values scouting that goes beyond pure numbers. He doesn't discount scouting, he advocates a combination of tools in order to get a decent evaluation of a player. One perfect example is Balentien. Balentien's numbers suggest he is ready for the major leagues, but Dave doesn't think he's ready to contribute because of his skills, not his numbers.

It's rather unfortunate that you resort to name calling when you clearly haven't read the site much at all. They can be somewhat "arrogant" but that comes out because of people who haven't done the work to truly understand their arguments.

And they actually like Larry Stone a ton, and they like Baker as well but they do disagree with his analysis more often than Stone.

I like Dave Cameron a lot. The commenters on that blog, not so much. It's a cesspool of negativity and I got sick of the non-stop trashing of Vidro and Ibanez last year even when they were scorching the ball in the second half of the season. The smarmy insults of Willie Bloomquist also got on my nerves.

I had reservations about the Bedard trade and hated to see Adam Jones go, but now that it's done I'm not going to wallow in pessimism like the gang there. There's no doubt that the M's starting rotation has gotten a major upgrade so I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season.

[keRplunK]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

I like Dave Cameron a lot. The commenters on that blog, not so much. It's a cesspool of negativity and I got sick of the non-stop trashing of Vidro and Ibanez last year even when they were scorching the ball in the second half of the season. The smarmy insults of Willie Bloomquist also got on my nerves.

I had reservations about the Bedard trade and hated to see Adam Jones go, but now that it's done I'm not going to wallow in pessimism like the gang there. There's no doubt that the M's starting rotation has gotten a major upgrade so I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season.

It can get negative but when you watch the same people make the same mistakes over and over I can understand. I like Bedard and I'm trying to look at the bright side of things, but that doesn't make it a good trade.

They are putting Wilkerson and Ibanez out in the outfield when 3/5 of the starting pitchers on the team pitch to contact. With Adam Jones and Ichiro they would have been turning doubles into outs, now they are going to be turning outs into doubles. It's a terrible strategy that is going to be a failure.

[Coug00]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

It can get negative but when you watch the same people make the same mistakes over and over I can understand. I like Bedard and I'm trying to look at the bright side of things, but that doesn't make it a good trade.

They are putting Wilkerson and Ibanez out in the outfield when 3/5 of the starting pitchers on the team pitch to contact. With Adam Jones and Ichiro they would have been turning doubles into outs, now they are going to be turning outs into doubles. It's a terrible strategy that is going to be a failure.

In regards to Management's terrible strategy leading to failure...

<a href="http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/a-paradox/">A Paradox</a>

So, while flying across the country today reading the 2008 Hardball Times Annual (which will get a post of its own soon), a thought hit me; the Mariners are signing Carlos Silva because they believe that his combination of no walks, no strikeouts, and some groundballs will lead to him not giving up many runs.

At the exact same time, the Mariners have built an offense that doesn’t walk, doesn’t strike out, and hits a lot of groundballs, believing that having a bunch of guys with that skillset will lead to the team scoring a lot of runs.

I wonder if they’ve even noticed that, much less tried to reconcile those two conflicting beliefs.

This kind of crap is why Mariner fans are becoming (already become) skeptical and negative. 5th highest payroll in baseball and they're going to be lucky to score 4 runs a game. Its time for Armstrong, Lincoln, Bavasi, etc to go. I have no idea how someone like Armstrong has been in his position for 20+ years, has never delivered (lets talk about all the hiring mistakes he's made), and yet keeps his job.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

I don't know why Mariners fans are so up in arms over this trade. Adam Jones wasn't going to be great until the Mariners finally traded him away. It's the Mariners way!

[rubisco43]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

I don't know why Mariners fans are so up in arms over this trade. Adam Jones wasn't going to be great until the Mariners finally traded him away. It's the Mariners way!

You're mistaken. That's the O's way. Adam Jones, sadly, is destined to fail. Man, I hope I'm wrong.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

It's rather unfortunate that you resort to name calling...

It's not name calling... It's like calling the sky: blue, or water: wet, or you: Dave Cameron's boyfriend...

It's just a fair and accurate description.

[snepp]

Re: Bedard for Adam Jones finally done

It's not name calling... It's like calling the sky: blue, or water: wet, or you: Dave Cameron's boyfriend...

It's just a fair and accurate description.

I think you just made his point for him. It's pretty obvious that you've got nothing.