NL MVP Discussion

[dalnet22]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Here's my take. Of the teams that aren't in the race, you're looking at

Albert Pujols
Chipper Jones
Matt Holliday
Lance Berkman (close to playoffs, but doubtful)
Hanley Ramirez



Of the teams that are in contention, you're looking at

Chase Utley
Ryan Howard
David Wright
Carlos Beltran
Carlos Delgado
Derrek Lee
Ryan Braun
CC Sabathia
Manny Ramirez

I don't believe I'm leaving anyone out. One could argue Aramis Ramirez, but I'm going with Derrek Lee because of his stellar defense.

CC and Ramirez are interesting candidates because of their late season arrival. They have been the difference for their teams with Manny being the key guy for LA.

I think you can subtract Ryan Howard, Carlos Delgado and Ryan Braun because they're just not in the same league as the rest. They've helped their teams immensely, but they're not the most valuable on their own teams! I guess if late success doesn't factor in, then you can also get rid of CC and Ramirez.

Now, you've narrowed down the list to these guys:

Chase Utley
Derrek Lee
David Wright
Carlos Beltran
Albert Pujols
Chipper Jones
Lance Berkman
Hanley Ramirez

Hitting wise, these guys are the most valuable in the league. Factoring in defense, we see that Albert Pujols is atop for first basemen, so kick out Lee and Berkman. Chipper is way ahead of Wright, so David is out. That leaves you with

Albert Pujols
Chase Utley
Chipper Jones
Carlos Beltran
Hanley Ramirez

There's always those intangibles and non quantitative characteristics that separate a good guy from a great guy in the club house. This is something I can not speak for, so I have no idea.

Of these guys, I would pick Pujols with Beltran coming in at a close second.

[dkgojackets]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

There is no clear cut MVP this year. But I refuse to believe in the Albert Pujols mentality. I know he's the best player. He will be until his mid-30s. That doesn't mean he should win the MVP each and every year.

If he has the strongest combination (by far) of offense and defense this year and the letter sent to MVP voters says to vote on "strength of offense and defense" then why shouldn't he? Just because you don't like him? He will be the best player for a while but every so often someone will have a career year to challenge him for the award, just not this year.

It looks like he's at the point where people don't even acknowledge how outstanding his season is just because it comes to be expected, much like A-Rod.

[P2K]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

If he has the strongest combination (by far) of offense and defense this year and the letter sent to MVP voters says to vote on "strength of offense and defense" then why shouldn't he? Just because you don't like him? He will be the best player for a while but every so often someone will have a career year to challenge him for the award, just not this year.

It looks like he's at the point where people don't even acknowledge how outstanding his season is just because it comes to be expected, much like A-Rod.

Nobody said they don't like Pujols. I never said it, either. I'm just saying, every year?

Like you said, someone may come with a monster year a few times in the next few years, but this "Pujols is the MVP by default" talk is just not sitting right with me.

P.S. Dalnet, take Utley off that list. He's been awful since the All Star break.

[Brandon13]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

There is no clear cut MVP this year. But I refuse to believe in the Albert Pujols mentality. I know he's the best player. He will be until his mid-30s. That doesn't mean he should win the MVP each and every year.

He's only won the award once.

[rsox]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

The issues facing Pujols now are he won't win the batting title (avg fell 11 points behind Chipper Jones) and he may not even lead his own team in Home Runs and RBI's (tied with Ryan Ludwick for both) and the Cardinals may not even finish with a winning record. The writers don't care about OPS or how outstanding his defense has been while trying to hit for big offensive numbers.

[dkgojackets]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Nobody said they don't like Pujols. I never said it, either. I'm just saying, every year?

Like you said, someone may come with a monster year a few times in the next few years, but this "Pujols is the MVP by default" talk is just not sitting right with me.

P.S. Dalnet, take Utley off that list. He's been awful since the All Star break.

I agree that he shouldn't win it by default (and also shouldn't win a yearly award based on his previous career), but I also don't think it should be held against him that year in and year out he is at the top of the league.

The best player for the past eight years is having his best season this year, but most people aren't taking notice just because he's been consistently good for so long. Not to take away from what Hanley, Berkman, and Chipper have done this year because they are all having great seasons, but nothing like the spectacular season Pujols is (although I think Chipper would be very close if he hadn't missed those twenty games or so).

[snepp]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

I agree that he shouldn't win it by default (and also shouldn't win a yearly award based on his previous career), but I also don't think it should be held against him that year in and year out he is at the top of the league.

The best player for the past eight years is having his best season this year, but most people aren't taking notice just because he's been consistently good for so long. Not to take away from what Hanley, Berkman, and Chipper have done this year because they are all having great seasons, but nothing like the spectacular season Pujols is (although I think Chipper would be very close if he hadn't missed those twenty games or so).

Stop making sense.

[P2K]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Well, I was going to agree with dkgo, but then I saw what snepp said

[Vince]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

For me it's Howard.

[dalnet22]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

For me it's Howard.

Why do you think so?

[kujoking7]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

I just looked on ESPN.com and saw why pujols should win MVP, even with his stats. Here you go:

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="oddrow"><td>June 26, 2008</td><td>Removed from 15-day DL </td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>June 12, 2008</td><td>Placed on 15-day DL (Strained left calf - out 3-4 weeks)</td></tr></tbody></table>
Also, pujols had the threat of arm surgery at the beginning of the year to miss the entire season, but played through it.

WHAT DO YA'LL THINK OF THAT?

[dkgojackets]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

I just looked on ESPN.com and saw why pujols should win MVP, even with his stats. Here you go:

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="oddrow"><td>June 26, 2008</td><td>Removed from 15-day DL </td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>June 12, 2008</td><td>Placed on 15-day DL (Strained left calf - out 3-4 weeks)</td></tr></tbody></table>
Also, pujols had the threat of arm surgery at the beginning of the year to miss the entire season, but played through it.

WHAT DO YA'LL THINK OF THAT?

wat

[dalnet22]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Manny Ramirez is my new choice.

[Sandman42]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Manny Ramirez is my new choice.

Manny begs to differ.

"I voted for Pujols," Ramirez said. The vote that Ramirez was talking about was for the player of the year of the Players Choice Awards, for which the Dodgers were handed ballots Wednesday. The MVP award is voted on by baseball writers. "It's nice that some people think I deserve it," Ramirez said. "I'd like to win it. But I have to be realistic. Someone who was only here for two months doesn't deserve it. It should go to someone who played the six months of the season."

[Beantown]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

I just looked on ESPN.com and saw why pujols should win MVP, even with his stats. Here you go:

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="oddrow"><td>June 26, 2008</td><td>Removed from 15-day DL </td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>June 12, 2008</td><td>Placed on 15-day DL (Strained left calf - out 3-4 weeks)</td></tr></tbody></table>
Also, pujols had the threat of arm surgery at the beginning of the year to miss the entire season, but played through it.

WHAT DO YA'LL THINK OF THAT?

WHY ARE WE YELLING?