Bonds Test Positive

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

I think the steroid problem is blown totally out of proportion. First off...i am yet to see a study that shows the negative impact of long term or short term use of steroids (the current gen) on the body when they are supervised by a doctor.

Secondly, The epidemic amongst teens...to be honest, I dont trust the dick Butckus foundation for a study on steroids...secondly i am willing to bet that there is more steroid use amongst non-users. We look at sporst...but I think guys mainly want to look buff to get chix. I think that many look at pics of the male body and they want to look like that...

In this regards...sports are not the center of the problem...look to Hollywood...50cent, LL Cool J, Stallone, Vin Diesel, and Christian Bale are more responsible for steroid use than say bonds, Sosa or McGwire.

Btw...I am not a steroid user...nor would recommend it. But lets be fair.

It's not blown out of proportion, just the opposite, it's been swept under the rug for a good 40 years now. Many big college programs had them as a part of their regimens for their athletes going as far back as the early 70's.

Your reason for not believing Dick Butkus????

There's a lot of effects, short term and long term, psychological and physical, it would take me a year to post them.

I will agree that the "steroid look" is a part of mass culture now, American Gladiators, Professional Wrestling, Tons of commercials show obvious steroid bodies whether they know it or not. Movies, they use jacked up monsters all the time, not just stars, but for baddies and thugs in the storyline, etc.

I think the majority of people think that these people just lift weights, training is superior, etc. etc. Nothing can account for the monsters you see except for drugs.

Your frame will only hold so much muscle no matter how well or hard you train, it takes drugs to get the prototypical NFL monster body or any of these other monster bodies. I have a powerful frame and used to lift 6 days a week split body workout, etc. and NEVER came close to looking like any of these monsters. I can tell in 2 seconds 99% of the time who's using with 99% accuracy.

[MaverickisBack]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

That bolded statement applies to a lot of things in life. I personally don't think anyone here was not being fair... realistically, true "long term" effects will not be known until the guys on current-gen roids reach that "long term."

Like most things, getting into "help" with little or no knowledge is surely not going to be as beneficial as with a guy who knows the stuff in and out and really can f up up (liver).

A question though..... if you have seen nothing negative about it... why would you not recommend them to anyone? When I was in school, if I knew 100% that nothing negative could come of them - I would have used them in a heartbeat for the potential gains.

Not too sure about the actor/musician influence. I train and rehab people for a living and they all say the same thing: "I want my belly to go away, better abs, and more tone." real general stuff... maybe they just havent crossed my path yet. But I have no one who says that they are in training to be an actor.

lol...no I am not saying people want to become actors...i am saying peoples ideal body image is shaped by what we see on TV. Just like for women there is an obsession with getting ultra thin.

Also, i wouldnt suggest taking because if you are an athlete the risk is too big as far as losing your career. If you are a non-athlete...get a grip...you can make great gains w/o the juice why pay so much for something not needed. Not to mention that alot of these peeps just take it without doing research...kinda like getting weed from someone you dont know...who the hell knows what is really in it.

Also...i never said that 100% nothing negative would come out of it. There isnt anything I can think of where I can guarantee 100% nothing negative will come out of it (including breathing air and eating food)

As far as long time studies...well look at bodybuilders...take Arnold or Big Lou for example...they seem ok...and before you bring up Arnolds heart condition...it was a pre-existing condition.

The point was made that its an epidemic because Big college programs do it. OK...if so...let me see the death's and health problems of all these people.

If it is an epidemic and it is sooo bad...then why arent we seeing all these messed up people with this problem. The reason we dont is because A)steroids hasnt messed them up B)Athletes playing at that high of a level make up a very small percentage of the population.

Lets look at high profile long time steroid users (Hulk Hogan, Arnold S., Macho Man, Ultimate Warrior, Jose Canseco, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates, Romanowski etc) Why arent we seeing all these messed up bodybuilders and football players. The ONLY one I have seen was Lyle Alazado and its highly debated as to whether or not steroids led to his cancer.

Also..I wouldnt ask an MD to give me info on how to read a draw play and not be fooled by play action. I wont leave it up to Butkus to tell me about medicine. Also...if Dick is looking for a problem..often studies like that will find a problem. Go look at the early studies on weed in the 20s. The stuff is hilarious...it made you believe peeps would smoke weed and try to attack you

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

lol...no I am not saying people want to become actors...i am saying peoples ideal body image is shaped by what we see on TV. Just like for women there is an obsession with getting ultra thin.

Also, i wouldnt suggest taking because if you are an athlete the risk is too big as far as losing your career. If you are a non-athlete...get a grip...you can make great gains w/o the juice why pay so much for something not needed. Not to mention that alot of these peeps just take it without doing research...kinda like getting weed from someone you dont know...who the hell knows what is really in it.

Also...i never said that 100% nothing negative would come out of it. There isnt anything I can think of where I can guarantee 100% nothing negative will come out of it (including breathing air and eating food)

As far as long time studies...well look at bodybuilders...take Arnold or Big Lou for example...they seem ok...and before you bring up Arnolds heart condition...it was a pre-existing condition.

The point was made that its an epidemic because Big college programs do it. OK...if so...let me see the death's and health problems of all these people.

If it is an epidemic and it is sooo bad...then why arent we seeing all these messed up people with this problem. The reason we dont is because A)steroids hasnt messed them up B)Athletes playing at that high of a level make up a very small percentage of the population.

Lets look at high profile long time steroid users (Hulk Hogan, Arnold S., Macho Man, Ultimate Warrior, Jose Canseco, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates, Romanowski etc) Why arent we seeing all these messed up bodybuilders and football players. The ONLY one I have seen was Lyle Alazado and its highly debated as to whether or not steroids led to his cancer.

Also..I wouldnt ask an MD to give me info on how to read a draw play and not be fooled by play action. I wont leave it up to Butkus to tell me about medicine. Also...if Dick is looking for a problem..often studies like that will find a problem. Go look at the early studies on weed in the 20s. The stuff is hilarious...it made you believe peeps would smoke weed and try to attack you

You're so far off track that it's not even funny. Guess you haven't heard about a bunch of NFL guys who died in their 40's and 50's at rates staggeringly higher than the general population and hundreds of other studies about steroids, etc. There's lots of bodybuilders who have dropped dead who you've never heard of.

I'm going to guess with your pot analogies, etc. you haven't spent much time in the New England Journal of Medicine. Don't take this personally, but you are really, really, uninformed on this subject and to bring you up to speed would take a long, long, time. Try doing a little reading about the subject, it's interesting stuff.

[arichzona]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

lol...no I am not saying people want to become actors...i am saying peoples ideal body image is shaped by what we see on TV. Just like for women there is an obsession with getting ultra thin.

Also, i wouldnt suggest taking because if you are an athlete the risk is too big as far as losing your career. If you are a non-athlete...get a grip...you can make great gains w/o the juice why pay so much for something not needed. Not to mention that alot of these peeps just take it without doing research...kinda like getting weed from someone you dont know...who the hell knows what is really in it.

Also...i never said that 100% nothing negative would come out of it. There isnt anything I can think of where I can guarantee 100% nothing negative will come out of it (including breathing air and eating food)

As far as long time studies...well look at bodybuilders...take Arnold or Big Lou for example...they seem ok...and before you bring up Arnolds heart condition...it was a pre-existing condition.

The point was made that its an epidemic because Big college programs do it. OK...if so...let me see the death's and health problems of all these people.

If it is an epidemic and it is sooo bad...then why arent we seeing all these messed up people with this problem. The reason we dont is because A)steroids hasnt messed them up B)Athletes playing at that high of a level make up a very small percentage of the population.

Lets look at high profile long time steroid users (Hulk Hogan, Arnold S., Macho Man, Ultimate Warrior, Jose Canseco, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates, Romanowski etc) Why arent we seeing all these messed up bodybuilders and football players. The ONLY one I have seen was Lyle Alazado and its highly debated as to whether or not steroids led to his cancer.

Also..I wouldnt ask an MD to give me info on how to read a draw play and not be fooled by play action. I wont leave it up to Butkus to tell me about medicine. Also...if Dick is looking for a problem..often studies like that will find a problem. Go look at the early studies on weed in the 20s. The stuff is hilarious...it made you believe peeps would smoke weed and try to attack you

I get the whole body image thing you are suggesting. But as far as non-athletes makeing great gains without the juice.... yes. you can make huge progress without juice, I see it every single day. The issue is that a lot of people simply will not invest the time it takes to progress the real way, as well as the fact that some people are simply only going to get so big the "traditional" way....beyond that "help" is required to break the code. Not to mention, most legel supplements over time cost as much if not more than it's illegal counterpart...... figure that in with the speed it works and it is actually cheaper (in a high % of cases).

You mentioned a good number of high profile guys who are not messed up. There are tons of guys are are messed up who didnt make it in either bodybuilding or pro sports who once they are out of college you never hear of again....it is simply not news when a second string LB who never made it big ends up messed up or dead 20 years after his college career is over......I doubt that these guys (the majority of guys) will ever be stories we will ever hear about. For instance, my high school there was myself and one guy who rec'd athletic scholarships in a class of 200...we went to different schools (big ten) and each one guy from our class get drafted in any sport - a journeyman who lasted five years... the rest of us went and got 'real' jobs.... that is a lot of guys across the board, a lot of guys who did use and you probably have never heard of any of them.

I would give up my arm if I could go two days without having a high schooler ask me about cycling, about what he is on, blah blah..... to which I have to legally say "I can't help you with that." It is sad.

BTW, that one guy who made it.....yes he used "help" and now, after a five year NFL career is selling insurance in his hometown... not really big news if something happens to him now.

[BigDofBA]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

Sosa's body changed just as dramatically as Bonds' did, he and McGwire can't even beat the eyeball test.

The choices are that these guys either juiced like crazy, or have cracked the genetic code and should share the biggest scientific breakthrough since Galileo with the rest of the scientific community.

Thank you!

I actually have read posts from people defending Sosa. Don't give me the crap that Sosa has never tested positive. I'm not stupid. I can look at him and his numbers and tell what's going on. Likewise, I'm a huge Cardinals fan and McGwire fan. That being said, I can't dispute the fact that McGwire juiced.

It is possible to put on mass and get stronger but you don't put on 30-40 lbs in your late 30's and have all-time great years. It just doesn't happen. Bonds and Sosa were sticks when they came into the league and they swole up to 250 lb monsters. Lets use common sense people.

If Sosa used a corked bat, there is no doubt that he used steroids. As an athlete, you're extremely familiar with your equipment. You would know what bat you were using. Also, Sosa said he would take a drug test anytime anymore and when he was confronted with a test during an interview, he declined and acted offended.

I have respect for Giambi and Pettite. They came clean and I forgave them. It's not a big deal. I just get offended when people like Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa act like the public is stupid.

"I didn't knowingly take steroids"
"My trainer injected my wife in the *** with HGH but not me"
"I'm taking andro"
"I don't know how to speak English anymore"

Give me a break!

[BigDofBA]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

There are a lot of misinformed people in this thread when it comes to steroids.

Health wise, they really aren't as bad as most here would believe. Alcohol and McDonalds are a lot worse. I'm not condoning them, I'm just saying.

The FDA actually recommended that they not be made illegal in the late 1980's. There are some good non-biased articles in the New England journal of medicine if anyone want's to do their own research..

They definitely work but there are consequences just like with anything else in life. I honestly think that responsible use would not jeopardize someone's health. With that being said, they aren't for the high school kid looking to have big biceps.

[daflyboys]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

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I now have exclusive rights to asterisks. Come get 'em from me MLB!

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

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I now have exclusive rights to asterisks. Come get 'em from me MLB!

lol...well played sir

[SPTO]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

Good,

I hope he enjoys life behind bars.

[MaverickisBack]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

You're so far off track that it's not even funny. Guess you haven't heard about a bunch of NFL guys who died in their 40's and 50's at rates staggeringly higher than the general population and hundreds of other studies about steroids, etc. There's lots of bodybuilders who have dropped dead who you've never heard of.

I'm going to guess with your pot analogies, etc. you haven't spent much time in the New England Journal of Medicine. Don't take this personally, but you are really, really, uninformed on this subject and to bring you up to speed would take a long, long, time. Try doing a little reading about the subject, it's interesting stuff.

I have heard of alot of this...and the vast majority can be tracked to pain medicine for the NFL guys as well as PCS.

Bodybuilders I admit are out of control with the amount of steroids and roid rage is real. However, I said "under a doctors supervision" The problem isnt steroids...its steroid abuse. Some peeps die from alchol...others use it no problem...the difference is the abuse component. Hell, i can say the same thing about food. Some people eat no problem...other people dont know when to stop and it causes health problems. When you use steroids properly...just like food...it has good effects. To lump all steroid users together is not fair.

Furthermore...I have a problem when we use the word "epidemic" it impacts a small portion of the population. We all can probably point to someone we know who has been impacted by alcohol or drug use. Most people cannot point to someone they know who has been impacted by steroid abuse. I think the majority of Americans dont even know people who take steroids

[MaverickisBack]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

I would say that either way you need to work out...so its not about being lazy per se. Its about realisitc expectations. Seriously, in what way is being a steroid monster helping out the average joe. Hell...I would take steroids...but it would in no way serve any purpose for me to be that big.[/b]

it is simply not news when a second string LB who never made it big ends up messed up or dead 20 years after his college career is over......No but if it were truly an epidemic then it would be news because it would be so wide spread. An individual guy would not make news but if it were an epidemic a mass of people would make news. I doubt that these guys (the majority of guys) will ever be stories we will ever hear about.

For instance, my high school there was myself and one guy who rec'd athletic scholarships in a class of 200...we went to different schools (big ten) and each one guy from our class get drafted in any sport - a journeyman who lasted five years... the rest of us went and got 'real' jobs.... that is a lot of guys across the board, a lot of guys who did use and you probably have never heard of any of them.

I would give up my arm if I could go two days without having a high schooler ask me about cycling, about what he is on, blah blah..... to which I have to legally say "I can't help you with that." It is sad.

BTW, that one guy who made it.....yes he used "help" and now, after a five year NFL career is selling insurance in his hometown... not really big news if something happens to him now. Well with all that steroid talk...i didnt hear the example of the dude who is now somehow messed up for life for taking roids...you just told me it ended up not mattering essentially

my point is that I dont believe steroids to be an epidemic in terms of size or danger.

Cancer is an epidemic...lots of people have it...lots of people dying and hurting from it

AIDs is an epidemic...lots of people have it...lots of peeps dying

obsesity is an epidemic....lots of people are...there are many associated health risks

Steroids is not an epidemic...relative to the population not alot of peeps are doing it and not too many are having health risks

I will concede that steroid abuse is a health risk and that steroid abuse is prevalent amongst bodybuilders

[arichzona]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

my point is that I dont believe steroids to be an epidemic in terms of size or danger.

Cancer is an epidemic...lots of people have it...lots of people dying and hurting from it

AIDs is an epidemic...lots of people have it...lots of peeps dying

obsesity is an epidemic....lots of people are...there are many associated health risks

Steroids is not an epidemic...relative to the population not alot of peeps are doing it and not too many are having health risks

I will concede that steroid abuse is a health risk and that steroid abuse is prevalent amongst bodybuilders

...and I never said that roids has reached epidemic proportions. Quite simply put, much like you..... there are a lot of guys out there who juice and know what they are doing 100%, will they develop various cancers, or failed livers becuase of them? who knows.... I know, like you, that they run rampant in certain sectors, like most drugs.

Quite simply from my point of view, knowing that high schoolers are using the stuff and have no f'ing idea what they are doing is just freaking sad.

[stoncold32]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

Good,

I hope he enjoys life behind bars.

I swear some of you people take this stuff too seriously....

[p_rushing]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

There are a lot of misinformed people in this thread when it comes to steroids.

Health wise, they really aren't as bad as most here would believe. Alcohol and McDonalds are a lot worse. I'm not condoning them, I'm just saying.

The FDA actually recommended that they not be made illegal in the late 1980's. There are some good non-biased articles in the New England journal of medicine if anyone want's to do their own research..

They definitely work but there are consequences just like with anything else in life. I honestly think that responsible use would not jeopardize someone's health. With that being said, they aren't for the high school kid looking to have big biceps.

Steroids are good, but not in the doses/lengths that the players are taking them. They have good uses, but uses aren't to get huge. The body isn't supposed to be that big and can't support itself forever before something fails.

[Cj7298419]

Re: Bonds Test Positive

Thank you!

I actually have read posts from people defending Sosa. Don't give me the crap that Sosa has never tested positive. I'm not stupid. I can look at him and his numbers and tell what's going on. Likewise, I'm a huge Cardinals fan and McGwire fan. That being said, I can't dispute the fact that McGwire juiced.

It is possible to put on mass and get stronger but you don't put on 30-40 lbs in your late 30's and have all-time great years. It just doesn't happen. Bonds and Sosa were sticks when they came into the league and they swole up to 250 lb monsters. Lets use common sense people.

If Sosa used a corked bat, there is no doubt that he used steroids. As an athlete, you're extremely familiar with your equipment. You would know what bat you were using. Also, Sosa said he would take a drug test anytime anymore and when he was confronted with a test during an interview, he declined and acted offended.

I have respect for Giambi and Pettite. They came clean and I forgave them. It's not a big deal. I just get offended when people like Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa act like the public is stupid.

"I didn't knowingly take steroids"
"My trainer injected my wife in the *** with HGH but not me"
"I'm taking andro"
"I don't know how to speak English anymore"

Give me a break!

LMAO! This post made me laugh quite hard. Especially the last part. But you are right about the corked bat incident. That's when I knew Sosa was a liar. I played baseball since I was 5 and ALWAYS knew where and when to use my bat, batting gloves, fielding glove, cleats, etc. For him to sit there and play dumb and act like he didn't know cork was in the bat pissed me off as a fan. Don't insult my intelligence!