Is all cheating the same?

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  • p_rushing
    Hall Of Fame
    • Feb 2004
    • 14514

    #31
    Re: Is all cheating the same?

    Originally posted by aukevin
    I agree with JBH3.

    Juicing gives your body an advantage over someone that isn't willing to risk his health and that makes it worse IMO than stealing signs, scuffing balls, corking bats, etc. Also, I think juicing can be done in secret whereas the other offenses can be determined.

    Exactly. Juicing is done in private. You cannot be found out, the umps can't throw you out, etc. With every other cheating, it is during the game. You can be caught and thrown out if that is the rule. If you are caught stealing signs, the signs can be changed and you or a teammate can catch a fastball in the ribs.

    Comment

    • MC Fatigue
      Banned
      • Feb 2006
      • 4150

      #32
      Re: Is all cheating the same?

      Just to add - didn't Mythbusters bust the myth of a corked bat, saying it did nothing - in fact, it degraded performance, lowering the speed the ball came off the bat.

      Seems some people were only cheating themselves out of a better performance.

      Comment

      • jbrew2411
        MVP
        • Dec 2007
        • 2554

        #33
        Re: Is all cheating the same?

        Originally posted by JBH3
        Yes, it is the parents, but sadly (my wife is a teacher) most parents will blame the teacher. When it is the parent that has raised the child who sees it ok to cheat.

        If we're talking about highschool kids then they know full well <ENOUGH>the disadvantage, especially if they are considering college.
        I'm not trying to get off topic because this is great stuff here but I also am a highschool teacher/coach. I think if the parents want teach kids whats right then it is our job to do so. In my class I give out a syllabus, like in college on the first day that includes what would happen if you cheat. I have the parents sign it and I enforce it. I have been taken before the school board on this before and won. I have the approval of my school system on this because the parents signed that they understood the school and my classroom policies. When a kid gets a zero and is failing then that gets the parents attention.
        I say that to say this. If there is a outcome to the actions of cheating then one will think twice about cheating. Even if we are talking about kids or ball players. In my school we have a no pass no play deal and a lot of athletes take my class because they think I'm easy. So if they get caught cheating then they get the one thing they love taken form them. I have not had a single person try to cheat, and I'm a hawk, in over a year. This would hold true with pro athletes as well. Take away there money and fame and send a few liars to jail (Bonds and Clemons) and they will stop.
        Relax, it's just a video game!

        Comment

        • MBMavs20
          Pro
          • Oct 2002
          • 939

          #34
          Re: Is all cheating the same?

          As far as the Mythbuster thing, I didn't see it, BUT..

          It must give some advantage. Maybe its psychological.

          Norm Cash said he used a corked bat the whole year in 1961. He hit .361. The next year, no cork, and he hit .243. Did the cork help? I can see having a down year, but 118 points?

          He hit 41 Hr's in 1961, and 39 Hr's in 1962, so there wasn't that big a difference. Should he give the batting title back?

          It's still cheating, but on a smaller scale.

          A-Rod did the "politically correct" thing and said he was sorry. When he retires and is voted into the HOF, it will be a sidenote, but nothing major. We will still be listening to Barry Bonds say how he doesn't know what cheating is. LOL!
          Last edited by MBMavs20; 02-10-2009, 05:36 PM.
          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6F...NqUUPnStADmhnA

          Comment

          • p_rushing
            Hall Of Fame
            • Feb 2004
            • 14514

            #35
            Re: Is all cheating the same?

            corked bats allow for longer bats with the same weight of a shorter bat, there is some advantage there

            Comment

            • DXZeke
              Straight Edge
              • Feb 2003
              • 2538

              #36
              Re: Is all cheating the same?

              HGH, The cream, The Clear, etc...

              It wasn't banned until 2004 and after. Until then MLB let it happen from 1998 to 2003.

              If McGuire and Sosa didn't have that Home Run battle that drew the nation back into baseball I really don't think that you'd be seeing MLB the way it is right now.

              So the higher ups say, "we'll turn a blind eye on you guys taking substances that aren't banned yet if you can get the people back."

              I have a problem with giving ALL THESE GUYS crap for taking substances that weren't banned until 2004. Cheating, Drugs, and Enhancers have been in sports for Decades. To make it like it's such a huge revelation now is crap.

              I wish that:
              The publish all the names who tested positive.
              Then have the Government and Media drop it.
              Let it go.
              Move forward.
              BeyondMediaOnline.com

              Comment

              • ZB9
                Hall Of Fame
                • Nov 2004
                • 18387

                #37
                Re: Is all cheating the same?

                Originally posted by DXZeke
                HGH, The cream, The Clear, etc...

                It wasn't banned until 2004 and after. Until then MLB let it happen from 1998 to 2003.

                If McGuire and Sosa didn't have that Home Run battle that drew the nation back into baseball I really don't think that you'd be seeing MLB the way it is right now.

                So the higher ups say, "we'll turn a blind eye on you guys taking substances that aren't banned yet if you can get the people back."

                I have a problem with giving ALL THESE GUYS crap for taking substances that weren't banned until 2004. Cheating, Drugs, and Enhancers have been in sports for Decades. To make it like it's such a huge revelation now is crap.

                I wish that:
                The publish all the names who tested positive.
                Then have the Government and Media drop it.
                Let it go.
                Move forward.
                quoted for truth

                also, improve the testing policies moving forward
                Last edited by ZB9; 02-11-2009, 06:59 AM.

                Comment

                • JBH3
                  Marvel's Finest
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 13506

                  #38
                  Re: Is all cheating the same?

                  Originally posted by DXZeke
                  HGH, The cream, The Clear, etc...

                  It wasn't banned until 2004 and after. Until then MLB let it happen from 1998 to 2003.

                  If McGuire and Sosa didn't have that Home Run battle that drew the nation back into baseball I really don't think that you'd be seeing MLB the way it is right now.

                  So the higher ups say, "we'll turn a blind eye on you guys taking substances that aren't banned yet if you can get the people back."

                  I have a problem with giving ALL THESE GUYS crap for taking substances that weren't banned until 2004. Cheating, Drugs, and Enhancers have been in sports for Decades. To make it like it's such a huge revelation now is crap.

                  I wish that:
                  The publish all the names who tested positive.
                  Then have the Government and Media drop it.
                  Let it go.
                  Move forward.
                  First...and I'm not calling you ignorant, but the whole "This is the way its been", or "We've always done this, or done it this way" etc. is pure ignorance.

                  Still doesn't make it right, and both sides are to blame.

                  In 1998 I was 17...So like a lot of people in their early/mid/late 20's steroid use in sports wasn't assumed to be as rampant as we now know it has been.

                  All of the D.A.R.E campaigns from my childhood focused on crack, cocaine, heroin...hard drugs. Steroids was something mentioned, but was mostly associated with body builders.

                  Now that all of this has come to light and I'm 27 I despise knowing that players from my childhood were 'juice-heads'.
                  Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                  All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                  Comment

                  • gabs485
                    Rookie
                    • Sep 2005
                    • 446

                    #39
                    Re: Is all cheating the same?

                    Before 2003 there were not rules against steroids use, so in my book they were not cheating. Yes, they took advantage of this substances but so did many others players and still didn't perform.

                    I think these baseball writes who vote for the Hall of Fame are a bunch of hypocrites, they are as guilty as the players. But in my opinion the MLB Administration is the one to blame here, because they didn't do anything when they had a chance and they had many chances.

                    I consider myself pretty fair. And I don't think is fair for players like Mcgwire and Bonds to be left out of the Hall of Fame because of the steroids issues that MLB baseball ignore for more than a decade.

                    It is unfair to Sammy Sosa who has never been proved of any use of steroids yet and still people question his Hall of Fame value. This guys were the guys that saved baseball and now they are been sacrifice because something they did that wasn't against the rule that now is?

                    And don't get me wrong. I don't like steroids, I know It's illegal and It's not good for the health but the fact is that these players are not the criminals, they are clearly the victims of a system that didn't educate them nor regulated them.
                    follow me on twitter at http://twitter.com/MrBetances

                    Comment

                    • p_rushing
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Feb 2004
                      • 14514

                      #40
                      Re: Is all cheating the same?

                      It was AGAINST the US LAW. It didn't need to be against MLB rules, US law trumps it.

                      Comment

                      • gabs485
                        Rookie
                        • Sep 2005
                        • 446

                        #41
                        Re: Is all cheating the same?

                        Originally posted by p_rushing
                        It was AGAINST the US LAW. It didn't need to be against MLB rules, US law trumps it.
                        So people who do cocaine and weed are cheating too?

                        There is a difference between illegal and cheating.
                        follow me on twitter at http://twitter.com/MrBetances

                        Comment

                        • ZB9
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Nov 2004
                          • 18387

                          #42
                          Re: Is all cheating the same?

                          Originally posted by p_rushing
                          It was AGAINST the US LAW. It didn't need to be against MLB rules, US law trumps it.
                          there are some things that are legal over the counter that are banned in MLB today...and some things that would be illegal in society but that were not considered cheating in MLB for years (for example, large amounts of amphetamines)

                          btw, there are some weird federal laws on steroids. WIth some anabolic steroids, it's illegal to buy, sell, or possess them, but not illegal to use them.
                          Last edited by ZB9; 02-12-2009, 07:34 AM.

                          Comment

                          • DaveDQ
                            13
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 7664

                            #43
                            Re: Is all cheating the same?

                            I don't care who you are, if you are in competition for something, and you go about achieving the desired results in the most ethical and honored way, but your opponent uses a means of gaining results by breaking the rules or artificially enhancing his/her performance, you will be pissed and demand that he/she be penalized when they beat you.

                            It's not right and to do nothing about it disrespects the whole concept of being honest and sportsmanlike.
                            Being kind, one to another, never disappoints.

                            Comment

                            • JBH3
                              Marvel's Finest
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 13506

                              #44
                              Re: Is all cheating the same?

                              Originally posted by DaveDQ
                              I don't care who you are, if you are in competition for something, and you go about achieving the desired results in the most ethical and honored way, but your opponent uses a means of gaining results by breaking the rules or artificially enhancing his/her performance, you will be pissed and demand that he/she be penalized when they beat you.

                              It's not right and to do nothing about it disrespects the whole concept of being honest and sportsmanlike.
                              Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                              All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                              Comment

                              • DXZeke
                                Straight Edge
                                • Feb 2003
                                • 2538

                                #45
                                Re: Is all cheating the same?

                                MLB is the root cause. They allowed these guys to take all of this crap while turning the blind eye with a wink.

                                After the idiotic lockout MLB needed something riveting to bring it back to the spot light.

                                Attendance was like crap for a good half of the season until the HR race started to heat up. Then the cities that saw Sosa and McGuire were becoming packed. Thank Yankees still pulled in their crowd, but everyone was suffering...

                                A ton of guys took chances on all these new/current drugs that weren't illegal (by law or MLB standards) at the time. As a lot of guys said you had a bunch of things you could buy over the counter at GNC that would help build muscle mass. It was the Androstenedione that Mark was taking that really helped him build bulk and it was banned the following season.

                                Truly, where do you think baseball would be at right now if the HR record was still at 61? That we never had the Sosa and McGuire race too 61.

                                Baseball would be here, but I really do think that it would be smaller in scope and size right now.

                                Steroids Saved Baseball
                                BeyondMediaOnline.com

                                Comment

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