From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

[snepp]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Pretty sure anyone can tell you "where the hell he has gone:"

Was the ace of the 2007 World Series champions, had an injury plagued season last year, and has been weak so far this season.

To say he belongs anywhere near this thread is...kinda funny.

I completely agree, although, "kinda funny" isn't the first thing that came to mind.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Adrian Beltre didn't go anywhere.

What?

He had a monster 2004 season (finished second in MVP balloting) and has played at a vastly inferior level since then.

He fits perfectly with the other one-year wonders in this thread.

[Blzer]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

What?

He had a monster 2004 season (finished second in MVP balloting) and has played at a vastly inferior level since then.

He fits perfectly with the other one-year wonders in this thread.

Yes, and one-year-wonders aren't exactly full-blown superstars. Sometimes players just break out one year and that's it. It's not really anything to speak of if they're not consistent for at least three years or so.

[snepp]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

What?

He had a monster 2004 season (finished second in MVP balloting) and has played at a vastly inferior level since then.

He fits perfectly with the other one-year wonders in this thread.

Again, he hasn't gone anywhere. He's been an elite defensive third baseman his entire career who happened to have one huge offensive year, it happens. Just because you can't recognize a valuable player doesn't mean they disappeared.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Yes, and one-year-wonders aren't exactly full-blown superstars. Sometimes players just break out one year and that's it. It's not really anything to speak of if they're not consistent for at least three years or so.

We're arguing semantics then.

Beltre was the second best hitter in baseball in 2004 and was playing at a "superstar" level that season and hasn't even cracked .300 BA, .850 OPS, and 30 HRs since then.

Relatively speaking, he has been a disappearing act compared to his previous numbers.

[Blzer]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

We're arguing semantics then.

Beltre was the second best hitter in baseball in 2004 and was playing at a "superstar" level that season and hasn't even cracked .300 BA, .850 OPS, and 30 HRs since then.

Relatively speaking, he has been a disappearing act compared to his previous numbers.

Behind Bonds, right?

Remember that it was also his contract year, where he went from National League pitching in Dodger Stadium to American League pitching at Safeco Field. NL hitters don't adjust to the AL well, often. It's understandable how he went to where he did, especially if we can expect him to jump to that status out of nowhere as well. Remember that before then he went from "who the hell is this guy" to "superstar" in the same conditions (still with the Dodgers).

[WazzuRC]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

We're arguing semantics then.

Beltre was the second best hitter in baseball in 2004 and was playing at a "superstar" level that season and hasn't even cracked .300 BA, .850 OPS, and 30 HRs since then.

Relatively speaking, he has been a disappearing act compared to his previous numbers.

So because he has one exceptional offensive explosion in his contract year that automatically makes him a superstar? Didn't realize that. He had one great offensive season, and has since come back down to Earth. Happens all the time.

He's still one of the best 3B in the game. .280 BA, 25 HR's, and 90 RBI's while playing fantastic defense is hardly "Where have you gone?"

[jth1331]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

So because he has one exceptional offensive explosion in his contract year that automatically makes him a superstar? Didn't realize that. He had one great offensive season, and has since come back down to Earth. Happens all the time.

He's still one of the best 3B in the game. .280 BA, 25 HR's, and 90 RBI's while playing fantastic defense is hardly "Where have you gone?"

I think you are vastly overrating Beltre, I wouldn't say "one of the best 3B in the game". As far as 3B go, I'd range him "average" with great defense. You can find comparable offensive numbers throughout the league for 3B go.
It is safe to say that 2004 was an aberration and not going to happen again, he hasn't even come CLOSE to those offensive numbers.

[WazzuRC]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

I think you are vastly overrating Beltre, I wouldn't say "one of the best 3B in the game". As far as 3B go, I'd range him "average" with great defense. You can find comparable offensive numbers throughout the league for 3B go.
It is safe to say that 2004 was an aberration and not going to happen again, he hasn't even come CLOSE to those offensive numbers.

You're right. You can find better offensive 3B. But, last time I checked, allowing a run on defense is the same as driving in a run on offense.

Beltre is probably around 10th in the league for offensive 3B and easily Top 5 or even Top 3 for defensive abilities. I'd say that pretty much puts him up there with the best.

[cubsfan203]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

You're right. You can find better offensive 3B. But, last time I checked, allowing a run on defense is the same as driving in a run on offense.

Beltre is probably around 10th in the league for offensive 3B and easily Top 5 or even Top 3 for defensive abilities. I'd say that pretty much puts him up there with the best.

Both of those are debatable. Beltre hasn't been a top 5 fielding 3rd baseman since 2006. He's probably more in the 10-15 range now. He's probably closer to the 15th best offensively as well. Hardly up there with the best, more or less mediocre.

[snepp]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Beltre is probably right on the edge of the top 10 overall. I guess it depends on where you put your cutoff for "of the best". Certainly not a disappearing act regardless of your definition.

Wright
Rodriguez
Longoria
Ramirez
Jones
Zimmerman
Lowell
Rolen (when healthy)
couple young guys that the jury is still out on

[snepp]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Both of those are debatable. Beltre hasn't been a top 5 fielding 3rd baseman since 2006. He's probably more in the 10-15 range now.

UZR, Plus/Minus, PMR, and RZR/OOZ all tend to disagree.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

I think you are vastly overrating Beltre, I wouldn't say "one of the best 3B in the game". As far as 3B go, I'd range him "average" with great defense. You can find comparable offensive numbers throughout the league for 3B go.
It is safe to say that 2004 was an aberration and not going to happen again, he hasn't even come CLOSE to those offensive numbers.

His numbers in 2004 were definitely the product of a contract year, but as someone who saw most of Beltre's games as a Dodger, I still think he has the talent to produce semi-comparable numbers (.300 BA, 30 HR, 100 RBI, .900 OPS); it's just a matter of effort and concentration with Beltre. Before 2004 and probably even now, he would have amazing offensive stretches and then follow that up with horrific slumps.

Still, Beltre was the top 3B in the game in 2004 and isn't even in the top 10 now. That's as close as your going to get to "From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!" He's an above-average 3B now, but in terms of playing like a "superstar" and then quickly fading away, he's definitely a candidate.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Behind Bonds, right?

Remember that it was also his contract year, where he went from National League pitching in Dodger Stadium to American League pitching at Safeco Field. NL hitters don't adjust to the AL well, often. It's understandable how he went to where he did, especially if we can expect him to jump to that status out of nowhere as well. Remember that before then he went from "who the hell is this guy" to "superstar" in the same conditions (still with the Dodgers).

Yes, it didn't help that Beltre had his career year while Barroid had perhaps the greatest offensive season of all time.

Beltre's played in the AL for 4 seasons now. I don't think that league unfamiliarity/park factor can be used as an excuse, especially when he played in a canyon in Dodger Stadium and had to hit against pretty good NL West pitching.

[WazzuRC]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Both of those are debatable. Beltre hasn't been a top 5 fielding 3rd baseman since 2006. He's probably more in the 10-15 range now. He's probably closer to the 15th best offensively as well. Hardly up there with the best, more or less mediocre.

I'd really like to see you name 15 3B better than Beltre.