From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

[Coug00]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Ok let's get back on topic here. No need arguing with Mariners fans trying to justify the $12 million they are paying Beltre this year.

Its not just Mariner fans who disagree with you, so its not like this is M's fans being defensive of one of their players. I'll add I think the M's fans who posted in this topic are extremely unbiased and objective of their team (Snepp is a Twinkie homer though, HOMER! :wink.

And this is on topic IMO. Beltre's name was brought up as a Superstar to where have you gone and people who disagree are discussing why they disagree. Good conversation I thought.

[Danny Glick]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Beltre is an excellent defensive 3B...that is fact.
Hes a decent offensive 3B to boot.
Anyone got any ideas about where he'll end up next season?

I'm thinking maybe Baltimore provided his price doesnt rocket from a bidding war.
It would help the young pitching rotation to have a genuine gold glover at the hot corner and his bat would be more live in Camden.

[snepp]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

I have absolutely no reason to "justify" anything concerning Beltre or the Mariners, other than a strong personal distaste for the use of fact-less "analysis."

[snepp]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

(Snepp is a Twinkie homer though, HOMER! :wink.

Might be the last time anyone ever accuses me of being a homer.

At least until the next time Mauer gets hosed out of an MVP.

[Seahawk76]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Might be the last time anyone ever accuses me of being a homer.

At least until the next time Mauer gets hosed out of an MVP.

Mauer? Whatever happened to him?

[BatsareBugs]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Anybody else remember how highly touted Sean Burroughs was?

Yep, nothing like having a guy who was at one point #4 on BA's top 100 prospects fail.

I can't exactly pinpoint where things went wrong for him. But yeah, he's well out of baseball now (Indepedent leagues have tried to sign him, but he's not interested in reviving his baseball career).

[WazzuRC]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Vernon Wells is borderline. Dude has all the talent in the world.
Huston Street.

Then some guys who never lived up to the hype:
Andy Marte.
Nick Johnson.
Mark Pryor.
Wilson Betemit.
Joe Borchard.
Austin Kearns.
Dewon Brazelton.
Casey Kotchman.
Jeff Mathis.
Jeremy Reed.
Bobby Crosby.
Rickie Weeks.
Jerome Williams.
Gavin Floyd.
Jeremy Bonderman.
John VanBenschoten.

[Danny Glick]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Vernon Wells is borderline. Dude has all the talent in the world.
Huston Street.

Then some guys who never lived up to the hype:
Andy Marte.
Nick Johnson.
Mark Pryor.
Wilson Betemit.
Joe Borchard.
Austin Kearns.
Dewon Brazelton.
Casey Kotchman.
Jeff Mathis.
Jeremy Reed.
Bobby Crosby.
Rickie Weeks.
Jerome Williams.
Gavin Floyd.
Jeremy Bonderman.
John VanBenschoten.

You can hardly call Vernon Wells a where have you gone type player...neither can you Huston Street.
I mean they might not have fully lived up to expectations but theyre still quite good.
The jury is still out on Bonderman, Floyd and Pryor they could still turn out pretty good.
Nick Johnson is an absolute beast when healthy so I wouldnt put him in this conversation either.

[wwharton]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

You can hardly call Vernon Wells a where have you gone type player...neither can you Huston Street.
I mean they might not have fully lived up to expectations but theyre still quite good.
The jury is still out on Bonderman, Floyd and Pryor they could still turn out pretty good.
Nick Johnson is an absolute beast when healthy so I wouldnt put him in this conversation either.

Yeah I gotta disagree with most of that list too. Wells has been a beast when healthy. He's been an injury risk too much but that's not the same thing. Street has been as expected and now he's closing in Colorado, where pitchers usually struggle. Others:

Floyd won 17 games just last year.
Johnson is now healthy and was on an 18 game hitting streak last I checked.
Kearns has been serviceable. Not everyone turns into a HOFer.

These guys don't belong in this thread. Most were never superstars and weren't necessarily supposed to be superstars (maybe they had a chance but if everyone with a chance made it, every team would be full of All Stars... some players just end up being solid).

[WazzuRC]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Yeah I gotta disagree with most of that list too. Wells has been a beast when healthy. He's been an injury risk too much but that's not the same thing. Street has been as expected and now he's closing in Colorado, where pitchers usually struggle. Others:

Floyd won 17 games just last year.
Johnson is now healthy and was on an 18 game hitting streak last I checked.
Kearns has been serviceable. Not everyone turns into a HOFer.

These guys don't belong in this thread. Most were never superstars and weren't necessarily supposed to be superstars (maybe they had a chance but if everyone with a chance made it, every team would be full of All Stars... some players just end up being solid).

I didn't realize Gavin Floyd won 17 games last year.

We've had mention of guys with exceptional years and then going back to their means, but nobody really has gone from superstar to "where the hell have you gone." I hardly consider Beltre, Brian Giles, Marcus Giles, and Ryan Klesko superstars. Chavez, Nomar, and Andrew Jones are the only ones I'd consider close to going from superstar to nowhere. There's really only a few "superstars" in the game IMO.

[wwharton]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

I didn't realize Gavin Floyd won 17 games last year.

We've had mention of guys with exceptional years and then going back to their means, but nobody really has gone from superstar to "where the hell have you gone." I hardly consider Beltre, Brian Giles, Marcus Giles, and Ryan Klesko superstars. Chavez, Nomar, and Andrew Jones are the only ones I'd consider close to going from superstar to nowhere. There's really only a few "superstars" in the game IMO.

I agree with that too. I think Brian Giles is legit though. Marcus, meh... definitely not Klesko. I agree with the others that Beltre isn't playing badly enough to be considered "where have you gone" so that's why I don't think he belongs. I'd have to go back through the thread but there are only a few I'd agree with (Chavez, Nomar and Jones would definitely be included on my list).

[rsox]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Why is Ryan Klesko even being mentioned?. You want to know where the hell Klesko went?, he went home. He retired after the 2007 season

[BatsareBugs]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Why is Ryan Klesko even being mentioned?. You want to know where the hell Klesko went?, he went home. He retired after the 2007 season

You're right, but he fell the hell off from 2003 to 2005.

[wwharton]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

The King Felix thread reminded me of another guy...

what happened to Freddy Garcia. He came into the league with a lot of hype, seemed to back it up. Then just fell off. Don't remember any serious injuries.

[Sportsforever]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

You're right, but he fell the hell off from 2003 to 2005.

Ryan Klesko is one of my all time favorite players. He always played full out and I loved watching him get a hold of one. He put up some good years for Atlanta (94-96 were really good) and then some AS years in San Diego (99-01). The guy was in his mid '30s before he dropped off...not unusual at all. He wasn't a HOF'er, but the guy had a solid major league career and I enjoyed watching him play.