David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

[rsox]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

The remarkable thing about Harold Baines was that he played his last 15 seasons on bad knees and was very productive. 6 seasons batting .300 or better. 6 seasons with 20 or more HR's. And even though he really couldn't run managed 7 seasons with 20 or more doubles and had 11 triples over the years.

Edgar was a great hitter. But you can't deny his best years came when he was hitting behind Alex Rodriguez and Ken Griffey Jr. and in front of Jay Buhner. When they all left Edgar's batting average started to dip as did his home run and RBI production.

It's apples and oranges really. You couldn't go wrong with having either of them in your lineup back in the day.

[snepp]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

When they all left Edgar's batting average started to dip as did his home run and RBI production.

Yes, heaven forbid a 38-year-old would start to decline.

[Freelance]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Fair enough. I'll still stick with Baines.

Except for the time when he played for Texas. #$%^!

[Misfit]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Why? Martinez has better production across the board. It's not even close.

Not everyone has to agree with you. He acknowleged he was wrong about Martinez, but said he still likes Baines more. It doesn't matter why, it's his opinion.

I'd have to take the side of the Martinez camp for best DH. Baines was considered a power hitter, but for a guy who played more games at DH than anyone you would think he would be the leader in home runs for a DH, but he's not. Martinez, the doubles hitter, is. It makes no sense to penalize Martinez for hitting behind hall of fame caliber hitters. All that says to me is guys were walked or pitched around to face Edgar, and judging by his career stat lines, he was able to deliver for his team. To penalize him for that is stupid, I can't think of another way to say it. He may seem overlooked right now, but fear not Martinez fans, he'll likely end up in Cooperstown where as Baines and Ortiz won't.

[rsox]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Yes, heaven forbid a 38-year-old would start to decline.

As good of a hitter as Edgar was he was a product of the lineup around him. Look at the numbers he put up befor that group really started to put up monster numbers. 1990-1994: never hit 20 HR's in a season, never drove in more than 73 runs in a season usually hit between .285-.305. 1995-2000 (prime years for group): Averaged 25 HR's, 110 RBI's, and never hit below .322. 2001-2004 (no Arod, Griffey or Buhner) Average drops, HR numbers down, RBI numbers down. Edgar did not just get old overnight the core of the lineup was gone and he came down to earth.

I like Edgar Martinez. I would like to see him in the hall of fame some day (sadly unlikely though). But you have to admit Edgar had a lot of help.

[CMH]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

While I completely agree w/ that assessment, I will add a reminder that he's ONLY 33 years old.

I recall some other posters throwing out age as an excuse for his declining performance, I'm not buying that.

Decline typically begins at his age.

[snepp]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Edgar put up big numbers for that obviously loaded '92 Mariners team (as well as good numbers the prior years) before shredding his hamstring the following year. He didn't magically become good in '95, thinking so is silly.

I'm sure he was simply a product of the lineup though, that easily superior hitting line is just fluff.

[NYJets]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

In 2001 without A-Rod and Griffey and with a washed up Buhner who only played 19 games anyway, Edgar had a season that would have pretty easily been the best of Baines career. 2002 and 2003, even at the end of his career Edgar put up numbers that were very comparable to Baines best seasons.

In their primes, it doesn't really even make sense to compare them, it wasn't close.

[bkrich83]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Why? Martinez has better production across the board. It's not even close.

I was not aware I was required to agree with you.

[Ewing]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

I was not aware I was required to agree with you.

I'm completely aware of that, I'm just curious about your reasoning.

[SPTO]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

I'm with BK on this one. I still like Baines over Martinez. Maybe it's because I grew up watching him more then I saw Edgar.

at least that's my reasoning other then what I said about Baines being super consistent.

[Misfit]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

In his first game after having 4 days off Ortiz went 0-3 with a walk and two strikeouts (2 LOB). In his defense, every plate appearance came against a left-handed pitcher (Tallet and Ryan) which obviously doesn't favor him.

[SPTO]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

every pitch up and in totally destroyed him too. He also can't seem to catch up to fast pitches with movement right now.

We'll see how he does when he faces a righty.

[ehh]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

In his first game after having 4 days off Ortiz went 0-3 with a walk and two strikeouts (2 LOB). In his defense, every plate appearance came against a left-handed pitcher (Tallet and Ryan) which obviously doesn't favor him.

Why would Francona sit him for four games and THEN decided to bring him back against a lefty? Especially if you're trying to build up Papi's confidence. Seems like a recipe for disaster going in.

[tWoSour]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

maybe we can all move on now.....only took till May 20th