David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

[SPTO]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Can Edgar Martinez safely be called the greatest DH of all-time now that Ortiz has completely fallen apart and only had five good seasons?

Harold Baines

'nuff said.

[bkrich83]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Harold Baines

'nuff said.

You know when thinking greatest DH of all time, that is the exact name that came to mind for me as well.

[Misfit]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

While I completely agree w/ that assessment, I will add a reminder that he's ONLY 33 years old.

I recall some other posters throwing out age as an excuse for his declining performance, I'm not buying that.

The steroid era has robbed us of what it looks like to watch a slugger age. Ten years ago 33 was still a prime year for some guys and I think PED's were a big part of that. I think we'll to start seeing guys have more obvious declines around their mid 30's going forward. Another hitter to watch is Vladimir Guerrero. He's in his age 34 season and riding the DL with a torn pectoral muscle, but the last few seasons he has hit below his career average slugging percentage. He's someone who I would say has kept himself in better shape than Ortiz so I would suspect his decline will be less severe, but I wouldn't expect him to out-slug his career .573 percentage going forward.

It is also entirely possible for a guy to just have a terrible year. We saw it with Mike Lowell in 2005 and while he's never regained that 30 homer swing he has been a productive player since that year when healthy. I have a hard time believing Ortiz is going to be a .600 OPS player from here on out, but I could be wrong.

[ehh]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Harold Baines

'nuff said.

You know when thinking greatest DH of all time, that is the exact name that came to mind for me as well.

LOL, y'all are crazy. No way Harold Baines was a better DH than Martinez. Hell throughout the 90's you could make a legit argument that Martinez was the best hitter in all of baseball. Dude stayed hitting .320-.330 and was a doubles machine. Take Harold Baines' BEST season and it was a below average one for Martinez 1992-2002.

[Ewing]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Harold Baines

'nuff said.

You know when thinking greatest DH of all time, that is the exact name that came to mind for me as well.

Edgar Martinez: .312/.418/.515, 147 OPS+, 118 RC per 162
Harold Baines: .289/.356/.465, 120 OPS+, 92 RC per 162

Martínez, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Stan Musial, Rogers Hornsby, Lou Gehrig, and Manny Ramirez are the only players in history with 300 home runs, 500 doubles, a career batting average higher than .300, a career on-base percentage higher than .400 and a career slugging percentage higher than .500.

How about no.

[bkrich83]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

I'll still take Baines.

Maybe it's just me. And if it is, great.

[Scottdau]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

I would say he is not juicing anymore.

[bkrich83]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

LOL, y'all are crazy. No way Harold Baines was a better DH than Martinez. Hell throughout the 90's you could make a legit argument that Martinez was the best hitter in all of baseball. Dude stayed hitting .320-.330 and was a doubles machine. Take Harold Baines' BEST season and it was a below average one for Martinez 1992-2002.

Throughout the 90's Martinez played in the Kingdome, in the AL West and hit in front of Griffey.

He was a great hitter, no doubt, but he had a lot of advantages.

[Scottdau]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Baines> Martinez.

[SPTO]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Harold Baines' numbers don't look great but if you look at his whole career he never had a bad year at the dish. The guy was Mr. Consistent. If the only knock on a hitter is that he's so consistent then that's a knock i'll take.

I'm sticking with Baines over Martinez. A lot of Baines' career he didn't hit in front of some monster hitting guy behind him.

[snepp]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Throughout the 90's Martinez played in the Kingdome, in the AL West and hit in front of Griffey.

He was a great hitter, no doubt, but he had a lot of advantages.

His home and road numbers were virtually identical during his career. He hit 4th behind Griffey, as well as putting up fantastic numbers after Griffey left.

I'm sticking with Baines over Martinez. A lot of Baines' career he didn't hit in front of some monster hitting guy behind him.

Who hit behind him? Buhner, Tino, Sorrento? Some nice years at the plate between them but hardly any "monsters".

[bkrich83]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

His home and road numbers were virtually identical during his career. He hit 4th behind Griffey, as well as putting up fantastic numbers after Griffey left.



Who hit behind him? Buhner, Tino, Sorrento? Some nice years at the plate between them but hardly any "monsters".

Fair enough. I'll still stick with Baines.

[Ewing]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Fair enough. I'll still stick with Baines.

Why? Martinez has better production across the board. It's not even close.

[ehh]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

His home and road numbers were virtually identical during his career. He hit 4th behind Griffey, as well as putting up fantastic numbers after Griffey left.

Thank you! Not to mention Martinez was a doubles hitter, don't see how the Kingdome is helping him out there. Sure he'd hit 25-30 homers most years but to act like the Kingdome was some huge advantage is ridiculous.

[Ewing]

Re: David Ortiz...Zero home runs?

Thank you! Not to mention Martinez was a doubles hitter, don't see how the Kingdome is helping him out there. Sure he'd hit 25-30 homers most years but to act like the Kingdome was some huge advantage is ridiculous.

Home: .311/.423/.517
Road: .312/.412/.514

Yeah, he's got identical numbers for the most part. I really can't comprehend how anybody can say Harold Baines was better than him. Edgar was one of the top ten hitters of the 90's and maybe even better than that, but he's constantly getting overlooked when looking back on his career. It's a damn shame.