Roy Halladay on the block?

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

Three of the organization's top 10 prospects is insulting? You have high standards. If Westmoreland were a shortstop (and Boston wasn't in the same division) Toronto would accept that deal in a heartbeat.

I wonder who leaked that deal. Edes once reported for the Boston Globe so he has ties to this area so he may still have sources within the organization. However, this info hitting the media helps Toronto as that is an impressive package and puts the heat on Philadelphia to give up more. It could also get New York and Tampa Bay to make some serious offers.

I think the starting point for Halladay to the Sox would start with Buchholtz and Masterson and work from there.

[Misfit]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

I think most would argue that Bowden is a better prospect than Masterson. A lot of the pre-season pospect lists had some combination of Anderson, Bowden, and Bard 1-3. Buchholz and Masterson were not included because of their big league experience though if they were Buccholz probably would have been #1 and Masterson somewhere in the top 10.

It all may be moot though as both Boston and Toronto are denying this proposal was ever made:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

Now the trade is official, I can finally give my thoughts on the trade (from a strictly Toronto perspective).

The return the Jays got was average. A Taylor for Wallace swap is a downgrade. Trading a 5 tool prospect for a 1B of Wallace’s status is foolish. The Jays already have plenty of options at the 1B position and lack OF’s that are above average in the field. There’s very little to dislike about Taylor. I question how much Wallace is going to hit. His numbers in the hitter friendly PCL don’t wow me. His strike zone discipline isn’t as good as what many scouts thought it would be coming out of the draft. You can’t ignore the positions that these 2 will play. I think Drabek has the chance to be really good. He already has 2 plus pitches but his change up needs to improve. He struggled against LHB’s last season. I like the bulldog mentality he brings to the mound. D’Arnaud is the least known of the group but he has the chance to be the best player in the package. His didn’t throw out a lot of base stealers but scouts like his ability behind the plate. His slash line after the all-star game was .302/.366/.473. He was also a big reason why his team won the Sally League Championship last season.

I would place the return in the middle of the recent ace blockbuster trades. This package is better than what the Twins (Santana) and Indians (Lee) got, but not as good as the Mariners (Bedard)or Indians (Colon) packages. Jesus Montero was the best player offered to the Jays and I would have picked a Montero package (even if Hughes or Joba wasn’t included) over Drabek/Wallace/D’Arnaud.

It was a real kick to the stomach to see Halladay put on the Phillies uni and hat today. Luckily I still have his last start in my DVR (the CG SO he tossed against the Red Sox). Halladay is my favorite Blue Jay of all-time and he deserves to have his number retired (not just have his name on the level of excellence). I felt like he had a chance to go the distance at the beginning of every start. He's everything you want in a pitcher. He strikes people out, doesn't walk batters, gets lot of groundballs, and works quickly. It's amazing how great his numbers are when you consider he has pitched in the AL East his whole career.

The Phillies are also getting a great human being. He never complained and there was no "diva" act with him. He also spent countless hours working with local charities without the cameras around. It's going to be sad to see Doc's Box go from the Rogers Centre. Too bad the Jays couldn't field a better team. If the Jays were a playoff contender he would have stayed. His wife broke down on a radio broadcast last season when it looked like he might get traded during the trade deadline.

I'm going to try to be in Toronto once the Phillies visit the Rogers Centre (June 25th-27th) and give him the 5 minute standing ovation he deserves.

[SPTO]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

I couldn't agree more with this post though I think a bit higher of Wallace then you do. I do like the fact that AA is still working on trades and is rebuilding the team to be a very young team that can grow together. In fact, I won't be surprised if after this coming season Alex hires a young manager with some experience (most likely minor league experience) to grow with the kids on the team. There's still a lot of work to be done but already this team is VERY young. Most of the guys on the 25 man roster are in their early to mid 20s with few exceptions.

The Jays are making a huge gamble though as this is truly make it or break it. We're going to see a lot of crowds in the 10 to 12k range this year and there's a dark cloud hanging over the franchise. In a lot of ways the franchise is in the same spot it was in 1981 when people stopped coming to games and the nucleus of the team was turning over with kids. In Gillick's case he was VERY lucky with Moseby, Bell, Stieb, Key, McGriff, etc etc. Alex is banking on his stockpiling of the farm system to yield similar results. It's almost impossible for lightning to strike twice but I like what he's doing. This is the kind of thing that the Indians and other teams went through in order to get better.

I nearly cried seeing Roy in a Phillies uniform yesterday but i'm going to be a big Phillies fan this coming season. I really hope that Roy gets what he so richly deserves and Lord knows he'll finally get the recognition that he never fully received here in Toronto.

I saw an interview with Roy shortly after the presser and he said something that I would normally call BS on if it was anyone else but it seemed Roy kept the door open for a return. He said he'd love to come back to Toronto some day. If he gets his ring and in 4 years the Jays are on the cusp of glory I wouldn't be surprised if he were to take a "home town" discount and come back to the Jays if they want him back.

Maybe i'm just being super optimistic that way but it sure would be nice to see Roy end his career in a Jays uniform.

[ryan36]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

Not being sarcastic, but did Ricciardi have even one move that worked out? Glaus, Wells, how good is Rios, wasn't BJ Ryan horrible? Overbay, maybe? Ted Lilly wasn't it. He lost Burnett, but did that even work? Between him and Bavasi , they may be 2 of the worst GM's this decade. And maybe Ed Wade.

[SPTO]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

Not being sarcastic, but did Ricciardi have even one move that worked out? Glaus, Wells, how good is Rios, wasn't BJ Ryan horrible? Overbay, maybe? Ted Lilly wasn't it. He lost Burnett, but did that even work? Between him and Bavasi , they may be 2 of the worst GM's this decade. And maybe Ed Wade.

He did okay when it came to drafting and such as Hill, Lind, Snider, Romero, are all guys that were developed under his watch. His best signings/trades were the minor ones that one could categorize as "just guys". His major weakness was overspending on risky propositions that never worked out.

[rsox]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

Not being sarcastic, but did Ricciardi have even one move that worked out? Glaus, Wells, how good is Rios, wasn't BJ Ryan horrible? Overbay, maybe? Ted Lilly wasn't it. He lost Burnett, but did that even work? Between him and Bavasi , they may be 2 of the worst GM's this decade. And maybe Ed Wade.

I'm betting some Met fans would throw Jim Duquette's name in there as well. Actually i'm betting some Met fans would throw Omar Minaya in with him.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

He did okay when it came to drafting and such as Hill, Lind, Snider, Romero, are all guys that were developed under his watch. His best signings/trades were the minor ones that one could categorize as "just guys". His major weakness was overspending on risky propositions that never worked out.

I think this is a good summary. The best moves JP did were drafting Lind and Hill. He also made some good cheap free agent signings like Zaun, Catalanotto, and Borders. The Kielty for Lilly trade was the best one he made.

All of his major FA signings were duds (Ryan, Burnett, Thomas). The Rios and Wells contract extensions were horrible.

JP's personality also rubbed people the wrong way. He use to talk down to fans when he had a weekly segment on the Fan 590 during the season and ripped Adam Dunn for no reason.

[Knight165]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

I'm betting some Met fans would throw Jim Duquette's name in there as well. Actually i'm betting some Met fans would throw Omar Minaya in with him.

I don't get the hate for Minaya.
At the very least, he made the best trade of the decade.
Basically, the best pitcher in baseball for 4 bags of wind.
Some signings....yeah...scratch your head...some missed signings...the same...but it's not all on Minaya IMO.

M.K.
Knight165

[rsox]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

I don't get the hate for Minaya.
At the very least, he made the best trade of the decade.
Basically, the best pitcher in baseball for 4 bags of wind.
Some signings....yeah...scratch your head...some missed signings...the same...but it's not all on Minaya IMO.

M.K.
Knight165

Here is an example of why Mets fans hate Minaya: The Mets pitching staff was battered by injuries to Santana, Maine, Perez, Niese, Redding and Putz last season and his first acquistion this offseason is signing Kelvim Escobar--who has ptched 1 game in the last 2 years due to injuries.

It's easy to figure out the reason for the hate if you step away and look at it for a moment.

[Knight165]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

Here is an example of why Mets fans hate Minaya: The Mets pitching staff was battered by injuries to Santana, Maine, Perez, Niese, Redding and Putz last season and his first acquistion this offseason is signing Kelvim Escobar--who has ptched 1 game in the last 2 years due to injuries.

It's easy to figure out the reason for the hate if you step away and look at it for a moment.

Yeah...except those are the same guys who killed the Met front office for NOT signing Vlad several years ago because of his potential "career ending" back injuriesz(yes, I realize that Escobar is no Vlad..).....and also the ones who said..."why not take a chance on Ben Sheets?"...."he was once a pretty good pitcher....what have we got to lose?"

Yes....like I said...some signings leave you scratching your head, but there were some good moves in there also. My point is how could you HATE a guy who landed us an awesome pitcher, FOR NOTHING!...at the very least that buys him some slack.

M.K.
Knight165

[snepp]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

You're giving Minaya too much credit for making a good move, while not giving Bill Smith enough credit for making a poor one.

[Knight165]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

You're giving Minaya too much credit for making a good move, while not giving Bill Smith enough credit for making a poor one.

We just see things differently, I guess.

M.K.
Knight165

[snepp]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

[Knight165]

Re: Roy Halladay on the block?

I'm sorry...I accidentally ran into this with my blind man stick.


Can someone tell me what uni he's wearing?...I can't see....

Sucks to be bitter....

M.K.
Knight165