Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

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  • ehh
    Hall Of Fame
    • Mar 2003
    • 28962

    #121
    Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

    Obviously Ricky Henderson used, he was smack in the middle of the Bash Brothers A's. If you were a decent player on A's from the late 80's-early 90's I would bet you were a steroid user.
    "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

    Comment

    • pfunk880
      MVP
      • Jul 2004
      • 4452

      #122
      Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

      Originally posted by J0nnD0ugh
      Anyone that claims this taints the RedSox WS victories is plain silly. Boston was the best cheaters in a league full of cheaters.

      What this taints is the Mitchell report, that somehow missed any Boston player using PED's.
      Well, we already knew the Mitchell Report was a joke.
      Green Bay Packers | Milwaukee Brewers | Bradley Braves | Wisconsin Badgers
      Marquette Golden Eagles | Milwaukee Bucks | Milwaukee Panthers

      Comment

      • ehh
        Hall Of Fame
        • Mar 2003
        • 28962

        #123
        Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

        So I guess we all know that story the Boston media has been pedaling for years about Boston's coaching staff "fixing Ortiz's swing so he was no longer burnt by the inside pitch" once he arrived is complete BS.
        "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

        "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

        Comment

        • The C
          Banned
          • Apr 2005
          • 7538

          #124
          Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

          Pud McGavin is the user.




          Dude used to inject monkey testosterone into himself in 1899!

          Although I don't think Jose is talking about Pud. Jose probably doesn't remember last week, let alone baseball history

          Comment

          • djep
            MVP
            • Feb 2003
            • 1128

            #125
            Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

            Every team that's won a WS since the 90's probably had juicers on their roster so it's hard to say this taints the Red Sox World Series victories in any real way except that these weren't just any two players being named. They were the centerpieces, the icons, the Ruth/Gehrig of the team. Take these 2 guys off the team and Boston proably doesn't even make the playoffs in either season.

            If it were Schilling and Kevin Millar or some other players like them that were named it would be difficult to say the victories were tainted. But Manny and Papi...that's like Jordan and Pippen for the 90's Bulls.

            Comment

            • greenegt
              G-Men
              • Feb 2003
              • 4494

              #126
              Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

              Not surprised. It is what it is. The Steroid Era.
              XBL: Mean Greene

              PSN: OGMeanGreene

              Twitter: @greenegt

              Comment

              • Freelance
                Banned
                • Jul 2002
                • 7021

                #127
                Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

                The saddest part of all this is represented right here in this thread.

                Ten years ago, this was a HUGE deal. Now many people don't seem to care. We Americans don't have the stamina for the fight anymore on anything. Eventually, we'll accept anything as long as we don't have to waste our energy on it anymore.

                Steroids will be cough medicine before long.

                Comment

                • JBH3
                  Marvel's Finest
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 13506

                  #128
                  Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

                  Originally posted by YankeePride
                  I probably wasn't clear enough. I wasn't saying they don't have easier access to it. I was suggesting that it's not the primary reason they use it. The reasons are deeper than just having it over the counter.
                  So they use it to get ahead, get out of the "slums", and into pro-sports? I understand that, but the fact that it's readily available makes it an even bigger option.

                  Originally posted by Olson-for-Heisman
                  "Only" 7 games?
                  The 2007 Mets and 1964 Phillies I'm sure felt secure in their 6.5 gm lead. :wink:
                  Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                  All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                  Comment

                  • CMH
                    Making you famous
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 26203

                    #129
                    Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

                    Supposedly, Jim Rice recently had a private meeting with Bud Selig about a potential big news break. I heard that from the wood works so the source could just be lying.

                    If that's true, perhaps that's who Canseco was talking about in his statement? Though, Rickey makes more sense and that would be a shame because he was one of my favorite players.
                    "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                    "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                    Comment

                    • CMH
                      Making you famous
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 26203

                      #130
                      Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

                      Originally posted by JBH3
                      So they use it to get ahead, get out of the "slums", and into pro-sports? I understand that, but the fact that it's readily available makes it an even bigger option.
                      Of course. But I thought the point of the original post was to compare Americans from the Dominicans (if you had to choose one country) and why Dominicans are being caught with it more so than the Americans.

                      Both have access to the drugs and even if one can pretty much get it over the counter, the other isn't exactly fighting through much to get it too.

                      So the only viable difference is incentive.

                      If scouts were looking at children in American shelters that had potential to be ballplayers, they would be no different than the Dominicans being offered steroids.
                      "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                      "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                      Comment

                      • JBH3
                        Marvel's Finest
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 13506

                        #131
                        Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

                        Originally posted by YankeePride
                        Of course. But I thought the point of the original post was to compare Americans from the Dominicans (if you had to choose one country) and why Dominicans are being caught with it more so than the Americans.

                        Both have access to the drugs and even if one can pretty much get it over the counter, the other isn't exactly fighting through much to get it too.

                        So the only viable difference is incentive.

                        If scouts were looking at children in American shelters that had potential to be ballplayers, they would be no different than the Dominicans being offered steroids.
                        I never gathered any racial undertones or otherwise from that post you speak of, but rather just a clear distinction of ethnicity -- whatever you'd want to deem it.

                        "Access"...changes everything. In one country it's illegal, in another accepted, that changes the mindset of anyone wanting to use it.

                        "Kid's in American shelters" only fits the unfortunate situation both would be in. It doesn't change the fact that regardless of social-class kids in the DR and other carib-latin countries are groomed for baseball; not the case here in the U.S.A.

                        Nice try though. :wink:
                        Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                        All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                        Comment

                        • ehh
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 28962

                          #132
                          Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

                          Originally posted by Freelance

                          Steroids will be cough medicine before long.
                          Wasn't it the mighty Bill James who said HGH users are pioneers and in 50 years every human being who can afford them will be using HGH to live longer, better lives?
                          "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                          "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                          Comment

                          • JBH3
                            Marvel's Finest
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 13506

                            #133
                            Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

                            That's the most stupid thing Bill James has ever said.
                            Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                            All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                            Comment

                            • wwharton
                              *ll St*r
                              • Aug 2002
                              • 26949

                              #134
                              Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

                              Originally posted by Freelance
                              The saddest part of all this is represented right here in this thread.

                              Ten years ago, this was a HUGE deal. Now many people don't seem to care. We Americans don't have the stamina for the fight anymore on anything. Eventually, we'll accept anything as long as we don't have to waste our energy on it anymore.

                              Steroids will be cough medicine before long.
                              No, ten years ago we all cared even less. The olympics were the only ones to make a big deal out of roids and that was bc they really do all they can to make sure all athletes are on an even playing field, and always have. Remember it was 2003 when this anonymous test happened. In 1999 players were probably buying roids from batting coaches.

                              Comment

                              • ehh
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 28962

                                #135
                                Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

                                Originally posted by JBH3
                                That's the most stupid thing Bill James has ever said.
                                Why?
                                "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                                "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                                Comment

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