Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

[dce1228]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

I hate Roger Clemens. Regardless, he was, and is, a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan. So is Greg Maddux. So is Pedro Martinez.

Ryan's best contemporary is Kerry Wood. IMMESURABLY talented, but more a THROWER than a PITCHER. Too many walks. At times dominating, hence the 7 no-hitters, but all too often beatable (only 32 more wins than losses, hardly a great percentage). The reason for this is Ryan had to strike out EVERYBODY. He never learned to be economic with his pitches, and it led to a lot of walks. The media loved to display the legend of Nolan Ryan, the shows of power and dominance, and were always hesitant to exhibit his obvious flaws, because he could look so good. Everyone is making the arguement that he had 7 no-hitter's and K'd everyone and their momma, but that's just not what makes a truly great pitcher great. You gotta WIN, a lot more than you lose. A lot more. And don't tell me he played for terrible teams his whole career because he didn't. He went 10-13 for an Angels team that won 87 games in 1978. 12-8 for an Astros team that won 96 games in 1986.

I'd take so many pitcher's over Nolan Ryan in a one game play-off that it's hard to count.

[SPTO]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

As a total pitcher Clemens is better (man I hated typing that) but I think that Ryan was better in terms of keeping his "stuff". In the last few years Clemens has had to add the splitter, curve, and slider to his repetoire and rely on those pitches more then his fastball whereas Ryan was still relying heavily on his fastball even up to his last season.

Also one other thing that makes Ryan better, he's actually helped another great pitcher. When Randy Johnson was struggling with his control and command of the fastball in the early 90s he went to Nolan Ryan for some pointers in the offseason and when Johnson came back the next season he suddenly became dominant.

coincidence, I think not.

[SPTO]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

As a total pitcher Clemens is better (man I hated typing that) but I think that Ryan was better in terms of keeping his "stuff". In the last few years Clemens has had to add the splitter, curve, and slider to his repetoire and rely on those pitches more then his fastball whereas Ryan was still relying heavily on his fastball even up to his last season.

Also one other thing that makes Ryan better, he's actually helped another great pitcher. When Randy Johnson was struggling with his control and command of the fastball in the early 90s he went to Nolan Ryan for some pointers in the offseason and when Johnson came back the next season he suddenly became dominant.

coincidence, I think not.

[SPTO]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

As a total pitcher Clemens is better (man I hated typing that) but I think that Ryan was better in terms of keeping his "stuff". In the last few years Clemens has had to add the splitter, curve, and slider to his repetoire and rely on those pitches more then his fastball whereas Ryan was still relying heavily on his fastball even up to his last season.

Also one other thing that makes Ryan better, he's actually helped another great pitcher. When Randy Johnson was struggling with his control and command of the fastball in the early 90s he went to Nolan Ryan for some pointers in the offseason and when Johnson came back the next season he suddenly became dominant.

coincidence, I think not.

[y2kornhusker]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?



Clemens is far better than Ryan. Period.

[y2kornhusker]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?



Clemens is far better than Ryan. Period.

[y2kornhusker]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?



Clemens is far better than Ryan. Period.

[dce1228]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
As a total pitcher Clemens is better (man I hated typing that) but I think that Ryan was better in terms of keeping his "stuff". In the last few years Clemens has had to add the splitter, curve, and slider to his repetoire and rely on those pitches more then his fastball whereas Ryan was still relying heavily on his fastball even up to his last season.

Also one other thing that makes Ryan better, he's actually helped another great pitcher. When Randy Johnson was struggling with his control and command of the fastball in the early 90s he went to Nolan Ryan for some pointers in the offseason and when Johnson came back the next season he suddenly became dominant.

coincidence, I think not.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

More like irony.

How many young pitchers have had their career's destroyed because manages/coaches/father's thought that the best way to pitch was to rear back and blow away your opponent like Ryan, as opposed to actually 'pitch', hit your spots, change speeds... etc.

[dce1228]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
As a total pitcher Clemens is better (man I hated typing that) but I think that Ryan was better in terms of keeping his "stuff". In the last few years Clemens has had to add the splitter, curve, and slider to his repetoire and rely on those pitches more then his fastball whereas Ryan was still relying heavily on his fastball even up to his last season.

Also one other thing that makes Ryan better, he's actually helped another great pitcher. When Randy Johnson was struggling with his control and command of the fastball in the early 90s he went to Nolan Ryan for some pointers in the offseason and when Johnson came back the next season he suddenly became dominant.

coincidence, I think not.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

More like irony.

How many young pitchers have had their career's destroyed because manages/coaches/father's thought that the best way to pitch was to rear back and blow away your opponent like Ryan, as opposed to actually 'pitch', hit your spots, change speeds... etc.

[dce1228]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
As a total pitcher Clemens is better (man I hated typing that) but I think that Ryan was better in terms of keeping his "stuff". In the last few years Clemens has had to add the splitter, curve, and slider to his repetoire and rely on those pitches more then his fastball whereas Ryan was still relying heavily on his fastball even up to his last season.

Also one other thing that makes Ryan better, he's actually helped another great pitcher. When Randy Johnson was struggling with his control and command of the fastball in the early 90s he went to Nolan Ryan for some pointers in the offseason and when Johnson came back the next season he suddenly became dominant.

coincidence, I think not.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

More like irony.

How many young pitchers have had their career's destroyed because manages/coaches/father's thought that the best way to pitch was to rear back and blow away your opponent like Ryan, as opposed to actually 'pitch', hit your spots, change speeds... etc.

[NYJets]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

I think Clemens is probably a little better. Both great pitchers, but I think Clemens is just a bit better.

Also, I don't think the 7 no hitters can be used as that big of an argument. Sure it's amazing, but in the end, a no hitter helps the team just as much as a shutout

[NYJets]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

I think Clemens is probably a little better. Both great pitchers, but I think Clemens is just a bit better.

Also, I don't think the 7 no hitters can be used as that big of an argument. Sure it's amazing, but in the end, a no hitter helps the team just as much as a shutout

[NYJets]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

I think Clemens is probably a little better. Both great pitchers, but I think Clemens is just a bit better.

Also, I don't think the 7 no hitters can be used as that big of an argument. Sure it's amazing, but in the end, a no hitter helps the team just as much as a shutout

[kweiss]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Okay, the thing is when you are comparing these two, there is no way you can bring up the total career wins or win percentage. Look at who Nolan Ryan played for. Mets, Angels, Astros, and Rangers. Through his whole 27 year career, he only played on 4 teams that won first place. Through Roger's 19 year career he has played for 8 teams that have won first place. No matter who you are, if you are playing on a losing team, it really makes it hard to have to have a good winning percentage. If Roger had played on the teams Nolan had to play on, there would be no way he would have come close to 300 wins.

[kweiss]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Okay, the thing is when you are comparing these two, there is no way you can bring up the total career wins or win percentage. Look at who Nolan Ryan played for. Mets, Angels, Astros, and Rangers. Through his whole 27 year career, he only played on 4 teams that won first place. Through Roger's 19 year career he has played for 8 teams that have won first place. No matter who you are, if you are playing on a losing team, it really makes it hard to have to have a good winning percentage. If Roger had played on the teams Nolan had to play on, there would be no way he would have come close to 300 wins.