Rookie Of The Year

**AI_Franchise03** · 06-29-2003, 11:15 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
dieselboy said:
Matsui and Willis.

<hr /></blockquote>

Agreed.
Also, to the person who mentioned that Japanese players don't classify as rookies, I definetely have to disagree. The pitching and hitting in Japan is different that it is in the MLB. Most pitchers throw sidearmed and most of the strikes thrown are fastballs. No breaking balls or offspeed pitches. Just look how Matsui was affected by the MLB pitching last year during International play.
The American players who enter the league actually have an advantage over the Japanese athlethes because they're used to the pitching and hitting.

**kweiss** · 06-29-2003, 11:24 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Matsui: .305, 8 homeruns, 60 RBI, .370 OBP, .829 OPS, 26 doubles, 32 BB/44 K's (as of 6/28)

How is that disappointing?

If you expected him to hit 50 homeruns than you don't know much about baseball. The most important stats are very good.

.370 OBP
.829 OPS

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah but until recently he hasn't done anything. For the longest time he only had 3 homers, and around a .270 batting average. He has just now started to break out.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I hate these Japanese guys that come over and win ROY's. They don't deserve them. Guys who have been playing pro ball for 10 years should not be eligible for ROY. C.C. Sabathia was robbed by Ichiro in 2001. Any other year C.C. wins by a long shot. He had 17 wins and was in the running for the Cy Young. Ichiro was a pro for like 9 years.

<hr /></blockquote>

I couldn't agree with this more. That's exactly how I felt when Ichiro won it in 2001.

**kweiss** · 06-29-2003, 11:24 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Matsui: .305, 8 homeruns, 60 RBI, .370 OBP, .829 OPS, 26 doubles, 32 BB/44 K's (as of 6/28)

How is that disappointing?

If you expected him to hit 50 homeruns than you don't know much about baseball. The most important stats are very good.

.370 OBP
.829 OPS

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah but until recently he hasn't done anything. For the longest time he only had 3 homers, and around a .270 batting average. He has just now started to break out.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I hate these Japanese guys that come over and win ROY's. They don't deserve them. Guys who have been playing pro ball for 10 years should not be eligible for ROY. C.C. Sabathia was robbed by Ichiro in 2001. Any other year C.C. wins by a long shot. He had 17 wins and was in the running for the Cy Young. Ichiro was a pro for like 9 years.

<hr /></blockquote>

I couldn't agree with this more. That's exactly how I felt when Ichiro won it in 2001.

**kweiss** · 06-29-2003, 11:24 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Matsui: .305, 8 homeruns, 60 RBI, .370 OBP, .829 OPS, 26 doubles, 32 BB/44 K's (as of 6/28)

How is that disappointing?

If you expected him to hit 50 homeruns than you don't know much about baseball. The most important stats are very good.

.370 OBP
.829 OPS

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah but until recently he hasn't done anything. For the longest time he only had 3 homers, and around a .270 batting average. He has just now started to break out.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I hate these Japanese guys that come over and win ROY's. They don't deserve them. Guys who have been playing pro ball for 10 years should not be eligible for ROY. C.C. Sabathia was robbed by Ichiro in 2001. Any other year C.C. wins by a long shot. He had 17 wins and was in the running for the Cy Young. Ichiro was a pro for like 9 years.

<hr /></blockquote>

I couldn't agree with this more. That's exactly how I felt when Ichiro won it in 2001.

**PDex** · 06-29-2003, 11:35 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
dieselboy said:
Matsui and Willis.

<hr /></blockquote>

Agreed.
Also, to the person who mentioned that Japanese players don't classify as rookies, I definetely have to disagree. The pitching and hitting in Japan is different that it is in the MLB. Most pitchers throw sidearmed and most of the strikes thrown are fastballs. No breaking balls or offspeed pitches. Just look how Matsui was affected by the MLB pitching last year during International play.
The American players who enter the league actually have an advantage over the Japanese athlethes because they're used to the pitching and hitting.

<hr /></blockquote>

Definition of Rookie: definition

So Ichiro plays PROFESSIONAL baseball in Japan for 9 or so years and comes to America to play PROFESSIONAL baseball. That equals 10 years. He should not be a rookie candidate. Look at all the true *rookie* records he broke against American pitcher his *rookie* year. The pitching excuse is ridiculous. The only difference is they don't throw high 2 seam fastballs and throw more sliders than curveballs.

**PDex** · 06-29-2003, 11:35 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
dieselboy said:
Matsui and Willis.

<hr /></blockquote>

Agreed.
Also, to the person who mentioned that Japanese players don't classify as rookies, I definetely have to disagree. The pitching and hitting in Japan is different that it is in the MLB. Most pitchers throw sidearmed and most of the strikes thrown are fastballs. No breaking balls or offspeed pitches. Just look how Matsui was affected by the MLB pitching last year during International play.
The American players who enter the league actually have an advantage over the Japanese athlethes because they're used to the pitching and hitting.

<hr /></blockquote>

Definition of Rookie: definition

So Ichiro plays PROFESSIONAL baseball in Japan for 9 or so years and comes to America to play PROFESSIONAL baseball. That equals 10 years. He should not be a rookie candidate. Look at all the true *rookie* records he broke against American pitcher his *rookie* year. The pitching excuse is ridiculous. The only difference is they don't throw high 2 seam fastballs and throw more sliders than curveballs.

**PDex** · 06-29-2003, 11:35 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
dieselboy said:
Matsui and Willis.

<hr /></blockquote>

Agreed.
Also, to the person who mentioned that Japanese players don't classify as rookies, I definetely have to disagree. The pitching and hitting in Japan is different that it is in the MLB. Most pitchers throw sidearmed and most of the strikes thrown are fastballs. No breaking balls or offspeed pitches. Just look how Matsui was affected by the MLB pitching last year during International play.
The American players who enter the league actually have an advantage over the Japanese athlethes because they're used to the pitching and hitting.

<hr /></blockquote>

Definition of Rookie: definition

So Ichiro plays PROFESSIONAL baseball in Japan for 9 or so years and comes to America to play PROFESSIONAL baseball. That equals 10 years. He should not be a rookie candidate. Look at all the true *rookie* records he broke against American pitcher his *rookie* year. The pitching excuse is ridiculous. The only difference is they don't throw high 2 seam fastballs and throw more sliders than curveballs.

**AI_Franchise03** · 06-29-2003, 11:40 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
PDex said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
dieselboy said:
Matsui and Willis.

<hr /></blockquote>

Agreed.
Also, to the person who mentioned that Japanese players don't classify as rookies, I definetely have to disagree. The pitching and hitting in Japan is different that it is in the MLB. Most pitchers throw sidearmed and most of the strikes thrown are fastballs. No breaking balls or offspeed pitches. Just look how Matsui was affected by the MLB pitching last year during International play.
The American players who enter the league actually have an advantage over the Japanese athlethes because they're used to the pitching and hitting.

<hr /></blockquote>

Definition of Rookie: definition

So Ichiro plays PROFESSIONAL baseball in Japan for 9 or so years and comes to America to play PROFESSIONAL baseball. That equals 10 years. He should not be a rookie candidate. Look at all the true *rookie* records he broke against American pitcher his *rookie* year. The pitching excuse is ridiculous. The only difference is they don't throw high 2 seam fastballs and throw more sliders than curveballs.

<hr /></blockquote>

I don't buy that. The guy played at HS, College, and/or Minor Leagues.

**AI_Franchise03** · 06-29-2003, 11:40 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
PDex said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
dieselboy said:
Matsui and Willis.

<hr /></blockquote>

Agreed.
Also, to the person who mentioned that Japanese players don't classify as rookies, I definetely have to disagree. The pitching and hitting in Japan is different that it is in the MLB. Most pitchers throw sidearmed and most of the strikes thrown are fastballs. No breaking balls or offspeed pitches. Just look how Matsui was affected by the MLB pitching last year during International play.
The American players who enter the league actually have an advantage over the Japanese athlethes because they're used to the pitching and hitting.

<hr /></blockquote>

Definition of Rookie: definition

So Ichiro plays PROFESSIONAL baseball in Japan for 9 or so years and comes to America to play PROFESSIONAL baseball. That equals 10 years. He should not be a rookie candidate. Look at all the true *rookie* records he broke against American pitcher his *rookie* year. The pitching excuse is ridiculous. The only difference is they don't throw high 2 seam fastballs and throw more sliders than curveballs.

<hr /></blockquote>

I don't buy that. The guy played at HS, College, and/or Minor Leagues.

**AI_Franchise03** · 06-29-2003, 11:40 PM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
PDex said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
dieselboy said:
Matsui and Willis.

<hr /></blockquote>

Agreed.
Also, to the person who mentioned that Japanese players don't classify as rookies, I definetely have to disagree. The pitching and hitting in Japan is different that it is in the MLB. Most pitchers throw sidearmed and most of the strikes thrown are fastballs. No breaking balls or offspeed pitches. Just look how Matsui was affected by the MLB pitching last year during International play.
The American players who enter the league actually have an advantage over the Japanese athlethes because they're used to the pitching and hitting.

<hr /></blockquote>

Definition of Rookie: definition

So Ichiro plays PROFESSIONAL baseball in Japan for 9 or so years and comes to America to play PROFESSIONAL baseball. That equals 10 years. He should not be a rookie candidate. Look at all the true *rookie* records he broke against American pitcher his *rookie* year. The pitching excuse is ridiculous. The only difference is they don't throw high 2 seam fastballs and throw more sliders than curveballs.

<hr /></blockquote>

I don't buy that. The guy played at HS, College, and/or Minor Leagues.

**PDex** · 06-30-2003, 12:00 AM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

Eligibility requirements were set forth in 1971 - a rookie is formally defined as a player with less than 130 at-bats, a pitcher with less than 50 innings pitched, or anyone with less than 45 days on any 25 man roster.

Do you think Ichiro or Matsui had more than 130 at-bats at their big league club in Japan?

**PDex** · 06-30-2003, 12:00 AM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

Eligibility requirements were set forth in 1971 - a rookie is formally defined as a player with less than 130 at-bats, a pitcher with less than 50 innings pitched, or anyone with less than 45 days on any 25 man roster.

Do you think Ichiro or Matsui had more than 130 at-bats at their big league club in Japan?

**PDex** · 06-30-2003, 12:00 AM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

Eligibility requirements were set forth in 1971 - a rookie is formally defined as a player with less than 130 at-bats, a pitcher with less than 50 innings pitched, or anyone with less than 45 days on any 25 man roster.

Do you think Ichiro or Matsui had more than 130 at-bats at their big league club in Japan?

**AI_Franchise03** · 06-30-2003, 01:05 AM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

Yeah, and I'm sure C.C. Sabathia had more than 50 innings pitched at his Vallejo HS, and the minor leagues.
To me If you never played before at MLB level then you're a rookie... But I'm uncertain whether I should agree with you upon doing some reasearch.
Seems like Ichiro did just as well in MLB as he did back in Japan. Had more homers, too. The reason I guess Matsui can't put up same numbers is because either the pitching is tougher and/or the the ballparks are larger.

**AI_Franchise03** · 06-30-2003, 01:05 AM

Re: Rookie Of The Year

Yeah, and I'm sure C.C. Sabathia had more than 50 innings pitched at his Vallejo HS, and the minor leagues.
To me If you never played before at MLB level then you're a rookie... But I'm uncertain whether I should agree with you upon doing some reasearch.
Seems like Ichiro did just as well in MLB as he did back in Japan. Had more homers, too. The reason I guess Matsui can't put up same numbers is because either the pitching is tougher and/or the the ballparks are larger.

Rookie Of The Year

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