Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[Ed26]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Johan Santana?

[jr3153]

Johan Santana is a no. Especially since he has been hurt so much since he has come to New York. Just not enough good years. Just my opinion though.


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[ubernoob]

Santana is not even close to the HoF.

He had HoF talent, but not the career. His body undermined him.

139-78 3.20 isn't good enough, especially in this day and age.

[Ed26]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Santana is not even close to the HoF.

He had HoF talent, but not the career. His body undermined him.

139-78 3.20 isn't good enough, especially in this day and age.

why is he a definite no? If you look in to his stats, you can make the argument of him belonging in to HOF. I agreed that he doesn't belong in the HOF, but he is not a definite "no". Santana has pretty good numbers. Yes he's been injured a lot, but he's like Martinez and Koufax. His stats aren't as good as Martinez and Koufax, but they are pretty good, you can make the argument of Santana being a top 150 P.

[econoodle]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Well if anyone thinks Johan should get in then Pettitte is a lock. lol
this coming from from a huge Andy fan who does not think he is HOF worthy.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Well if anyone thinks Johan should get in then Pettitte is a lock. lol
this coming from from a huge Andy fan who does not think he is HOF worthy.

I don't think either should be in but if we are comparing the two as pitchers it really isn't even close. Johan was just on another level than Pettitte. Injures and too short of a career keep him out but for Pettitte he just wasn't good enough.

[ubernoob]

I don't think either should be in but if we are comparing the two as pitchers it really isn't even close. Johan was just on another level than Pettitte. Injures and too short of a career keep him out but for Pettitte he just wasn't good enough.

That's the point. Pettitte has the better career, and he doesn't deserve to be in... So Johan doesn't either. Its not the hall of talent. Johans body betrayed his HoF chance.

[Redacted01]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Santana is not even close to the HoF.

He had HoF talent, but not the career. His body undermined him.

139-78 3.20 isn't good enough, especially in this day and age.

You say that is a definite no, so what about these stats?

199-100, 3.31 ERA, 2 Cy Youngs

Very similar.

[ubernoob]

You say that is a definite no, so what about these stats?

199-100, 3.31 ERA, 2 Cy Youngs

Very similar.

That many more wins and losses is not similar.

Looking at counting stats makes it hazy that Santana gets in. His IP puts that more in doubt. Advanced metrics put it even further away.

Had he continued at even above average pitching for 5+ more years I wouldn't argue against him. It's highly unlikely now.

[Redacted01]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

That many more wins and losses is not similar.

Looking at counting stats makes it hazy that Santana gets in. His IP puts that more in doubt. Advanced metrics put it even further away.

Had he continued at even above average pitching for 5+ more years I wouldn't argue against him. It's highly unlikely now.

Eh, true. I was looking at win rate. Santana is at about 65% and the one I posted is 66%.

[snepp]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Advanced metrics put it even further away.

Huh? If anything it's the advanced metrics that push him into the discussion, not away. Compiling 50 WAR in that small sample of time is a pretty rare accomplishment.

That's not to say he belongs in the Hall though, just that he makes for an interesting candidate for discussion.

[ubernoob]

Huh? If anything it's the advanced metrics that push him into the discussion, not away. Compiling 50 WAR in that small sample of time is a pretty rare accomplishment.

That's not to say he belongs in the Hall though, just that he makes for an interesting candidate for discussion.

Average WAR for SP in the hof is near 70, and average peak WAR (best 7 seasons) is at almost 48. Santana is at 49 and 43 respectively. I don't like WAR but those numbers don't help him in his shortened career.

Here's a decent article.

http://mlb.si.com/2013/03/29/johan-santana-hall-of-fame-prospects/

[snepp]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Are you trying to refute what I said, or support it?

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I don't like WAR

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So there!

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Does Carlos Beltran get in?

Of course he's still playing, but I think he's really borderline.