Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

@G3no

I was actually thinking the same thing. Someone could go through and get all the 100% 'yes' guys together and the unanimous 'no' guys together and post them. Maybe then we could pick at that list or bring up some of the more mixed guys to debate in a bit more depth. It would be kind of cool if we "elected" some of the borderline or not yet eligible guys using this thread as a hypothetical add-on wing to Cooperstown.

By the way, for me the only thing egregious would be bringing up a guy for debate (other than Eddie Gaedel, lol) that had only a few ABs or less than 4-5 seasons. That would probably be a waste unless it was a guy who did damage in the Nippon/Negro/or other leagues than MLB.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Yea, but anyone with a career .239 BA is just a hell no, unless he was some supreme fielder, which Dunn is clearly not. His War is 23.5 LOL. The only thing Dunn can do is hit home runs or strikeout. He's just an unimpressive player all around.

And Bobby Bonds is a huge no too.

I totally agree that I wouldn't put Dunn anywhere near the Hall. But his OBP and homers make him worth mentioning.

As far as Bobby Bonds, I think that is REALLY harsh considering he was on the ballot for ELEVEN years. By a lot of different metrics (57 career bWAR, 129 career OPS+, 300+ HR/400+ SB) the guy was a fantastic MLB ballplayer.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No need to nominate guys with like 20 WAR though. Absolutely no point.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I totally agree that I wouldn't put Dunn anywhere near the Hall. But his OBP and homers make him worth mentioning.

As far as Bobby Bonds, I think that is REALLY harsh considering he was on the ballot for ELEVEN years. By a lot of different metrics (57 career bWAR, 129 career OPS+, 300+ HR/400+ SB) the guy was a fantastic MLB ballplayer.

I'd take Bonds and Dunn on my all time strikeout team.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No need to nominate guys with like 20 WAR though. Absolutely no point.

If you only look at WAR to determine everything, may the baseball gods have mercy on your soul.

I'd take Bonds and Dunn on my all time strikeout team.

Would you take Ken Griffey Jr., Mike Schmidt, and Willie Stargell on your strikeout team too?

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Those players are a caliber or two above Bobby Bonds and Adam Dunn.

Back to Bobby though, he does have some nice stats, but he's middle of the pack in the Hall of Very good. Where Dunn I don't I even think sniffs it, Maybe a fringe HOVG.

EDIT: Just wanted to point out I contradicted myself lol, Bobby does belong in the HOVG. Dunn does not. I had to look over Bobby's stats a little more, he was better then I thought. But not HOF worthy.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

In the board's opinion, should truly exceptional international players (Sadaharu Oh, etc.) that never had the opportunity to play in North America be eligible for Cooperstown? Not via BBWAA vote, obviously: an International Veterans Committee would have to be established to determine who, if anyone, was worthy. Bear in mind that Negro Leaguers were excluded from the HOF until the 1970s.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No need to nominate guys with like 20 WAR though. Absolutely no point.

There are players in the Hall with WAR's in the 20's..

Also, not everyone has the same knowledge about stats and a player's value. Someone could just be a casual fan that is curious about a player. If you think it is pointless to discuss a certain player, you don't have to respond.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

If you only look at WAR to determine everything, may the baseball gods have mercy on your soul.

I don't look at it as an end all, be all, but if a guy played for 15 years or so and has a WAR in the 20s, he flat out doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. I'd like to hear an argument to dispute that. I'm all ears.

There are players in the Hall with WAR's in the 20's..

Let me know the next time that ever, ever happens again and it's not a player from pre-WWI.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Let me know the next time that ever, ever happens again and it's not a player from pre-WWI.

That's not the point.. the point is, this is a place to discuss players and their chances to get into the Hall. Someone shouldn't be afraid to throw a name out there because you may think there is "no point."

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

In the board's opinion, should truly exceptional international players (Sadaharu Oh, etc.) that never had the opportunity to play in North America be eligible for Cooperstown? Not via BBWAA vote, obviously: an International Veterans Committee would have to be established to determine who, if anyone, was worthy. Bear in mind that Negro Leaguers were excluded from the HOF until the 1970s.

I think so. I'm not sure we could be as "objective" about the stats, but it's worth considering. If players like Ichiro and Darvish can come over and play well in MLB, it's fair to assume the best of the best in Japan would be standouts here also. Not to mention that if MLB truly wants to be a global power, it's a critical step in the process.

If we can manage special elections for the Negro Leagues and for umpires, I don't see why a wing for international players would be unreasonable.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Also, not everyone has the same knowledge about stats and a player's value. Someone could just be a casual fan that is curious about a player. If you think it is pointless to discuss a certain player, you don't have to respond.

Very true, but it's a chicken and the egg thing. If someone posts a name to consider, then people don't have to respond; but if some people do make irritated and/or condescending posts about the horror of even bringing up a specific name with a low WAR value, then we don't have to respond to that either, lol. So, sometimes it's best to ignore.

EDIT: Another interesting project may be to tabulate WAR values for each HoFer and see if there are really any true cutoffs there. For a lot of players, ~60 WAR seems to be the magic number for people to get truly interested.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

First guy I checked, Lloyd Waner. Career bWAR = 24.1, post WWI player. HoF via Veteran's Committee in 1967.

[TCM]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

"OPS+, 99" LoL

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

You think that's bad, check out Red Schoendist. OPS+ = 94. bWAR in the high 40s though.