Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

That's not the point.. the point is, this is a place to discuss players and their chances to get into the Hall. Someone shouldn't bue afraid to throw a name out there because you may think there is "no point."

No one's stopping you, I just thought it was weird going from fringe or better Hall of fame cases to guys that are not even close.

Let's exercise our demons guys. Sean Casey? Don Baylor? Ray Durham,?Monte Irvin? Eric Chavez? Dave Concepcion? This is the territory we are in now.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No one's stopping you, I just thought it was weird going from fringe or better Hall of fame cases to guys that are not even close.

Let's exercise our demons guys. Sean Casey? Don Baylor? Ray Durham,?Monte Irvin? Eric Chavez? Dave Concepcion? This is the territory we are in now.

Monte Irvin's already in.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Monte Irvin's already in.

From his Negro League performance?

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

You think that's bad, check out Red Schoendist. OPS+ = 94. bWAR in the high 40s though.

How in the hell did he get in?

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

From his Negro League performance?

Yep, pretty much.

[wwharton]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Who cares? lol

It's a discussion thread. Give your opinions or give a name that you want to be discussed. There isn't a right or wrong player to suggest for discussion. If someone wonder's what people think about Adam Dunn's chances to get into the Hall, what's wrong with asking in here, even if it is a unanimous 'no'?

One thing that would be kind of cool would be marking down the unanimous 'yes' players and listing them on the front page. It would probably be a lot of work but just something I thought of.

The problem is people are nominating guys THEY don't even think belong. The thread is long enough from natural conversation. If you haven't noticed a lot of early posters haven't said a word in a while... it's been kind of bastardized with discussion of the likes of Adam Dunn. There's a feeling that names are being thrown out just to keep the thread going or something. That's unnecessary. If the thread is done, let it die... otherwise just wait for someone else to post someone legit and discuss that. Padding the thread is not trolling (not even close) but it creates unnecessary clutter just the same.

If someone is asking about Adam Dunn and really needs explanation of why he shouldn't even be considered, that's one thing. Just throwing his name out there is completely different.

There are players in the Hall with WAR's in the 20's..

Also, not everyone has the same knowledge about stats and a player's value. Someone could just be a casual fan that is curious about a player. If you think it is pointless to discuss a certain player, you don't have to respond.

I've exercised this practice quite a bit since this thread took a turn. I decided to speak up to hopefully get it back on track.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

If someone is asking about Adam Dunn and really needs explanation of why he shouldn't even be considered, that's one thing. Just throwing his name out there is completely different.

I agree that some names that are being thrown out or pretty far off. But recently I threw out the names of Berkman and Teixeira.. Guys I thought could be borderline, especially if Teixeira can put more solid years on his resume. Some may think I was an idiot, some may think those were good players to discuss.

If you know that a player is NOT a HOF, has no chance, and everyone else will think the same, then I see why there would be no point to throw his name out there.. but just because one person thinks it's stupid doesn't mean everyone will.

I was getting the feeling of "I know so much about baseball, everyone else is an idiot", so I spoke up. Just sick of the belittling.

[wwharton]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I agree that some names that are being thrown out or pretty far off. But recently I threw out the names of Berkman and Teixeira.. Guys I thought could be borderline, especially if Teixeira can put more solid years on his resume. Some may think I was an idiot, some may think those were good players to discuss.

If you know that a player is NOT a HOF, has no chance, and everyone else will think the same, then I see why there would be no point to throw his name out there.. but just because one person thinks it's stupid doesn't mean everyone will.

I was getting the feeling of "I know so much about baseball, everyone else is an idiot", so I spoke up. Just sick of the belittling.

I'm not belittling anyone. In fact I said, if there's an argument for Tiex let me here it... I personally don't think "solid years on his resume" is enough to worth considering in the HOF. Even at his current pace he shouldn't get in IMO. But if you think he should or could, more power to you. All I'm saying is if you don't think he should, why bring him up? Those are the people I'm talking about.

I'd also say the people that "know more about baseball than everyone else" have been replying with statistics to back up what they're saying so you shouldn't have a beef with them. An nobody is calling anyone else stupid or an idiot. Quite the contrary actually. It seems like people that do know baseball and a good history of it are nominating names that don't make sense, without providing any explanation of why the player should be discussed. If you're going to nominate Phil Hughes, at least include why YOU think he should be discussed. Otherwise it's just a waste of space.

And to be clear, this is coming from me as a fellow poster, not as a mod. Nobody is breaking any rules in this thread and you all are free to continue discussing just as you are. I'm just expressing my opinion on some of the names that have been thrown out there.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I agree with what you are saying. I don't think anyone is calling others stupid or an idiot. There are a select few that make it pretty clear that that's how they feel about certain comments. I have no problem with people backing their case with statistics, that's how you should back an argument IMO. I just don't think you are getting what I was trying to say.

For the record, I think WTNY brought up Adam Dunn and later did state why he could get some consideration. Not that he thought he was a HOF'er but he was curious if other's thought he could get some consideration. I don't see what is wrong with that, but I can understand if you think that is a waste of space.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No one's stopping you, I just thought it was weird going from fringe or better Hall of fame cases to guys that are not even close.

Let's exercise our demons guys. Sean Casey? Don Baylor? Ray Durham,?Monte Irvin? Eric Chavez? Dave Concepcion? This is the territory we are in now.

Those demons really need to get their cardio in, lol.

I know this list is meant jokingly, but I don't really mind considering those guys. In fact, a couple had fantastic careers and all had solid ones. It's fun to look back at all of their careers, in my opinion, as a baseball fan. It doesn't feel like 'work' or a bad time to discuss them in reference to the HoF. I don't think any (save for Irvin) make the cut though.

There's also the logistical point that eventually you will run out of "good" names to discuss. So, pick your poison: (1) discuss guys that have already been mentioned in more depth; (2) widen the threshhold of players you are willing to discuss; (3) let the thread die. It seems that whatever option is chosen, someone will have a problem with it. I have already seen posters react with irritation to options 1 and 2, which means maybe wwharton is right about option 3. Although, I am willing to discuss anyone with whoever wants to, lol. Even if that irritates some. This is a discussion forum after all.

How in the hell did he get in?

Veteran's Committee. Although I believe he did get 40% of the ballot once upon a time. He was also a good manager too, so maybe that could've factored in, too.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

How about Ron Guidry. Looking at him compared with his 80's pitching counterparts, he was one of the better pitchers of the 80's.

A three time 20 or more game winner. 170-91 career record. In 1978 he put on arguably one of the best pitchers performances of all time, going 25-3 with a 1.78 era and 248 strikeouts.

Has a career WAR of 48.1, ehh decent. And a career 3.29 era. K/9 6.69. Whip 1.18.

He's a compelling case.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No on Guidry for me. He just didn't play long enough and didn't have the high end peak that a guy like Koufax (who also had a shortened career) had.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No on Guidry for me. He just didn't play long enough and didn't have the high end peak that a guy like Koufax (who also had a shortened career) had.

I agree, his longevity is underwhelming. But I thought "Louisiana Lightning" deserved a mention.

Kevin Brown, I know he's been brought up, but I think he was dismissed too quickly. I'm going with yes, at first glance he's underwhelming, Only once a 20 game winner. 211 -144. A career era of 3.29.

Here comes the ground breaker, KB has a WAR of 73.5. He had about a 4 year stretch where he was the elite among other pitchers, I think this qualifies him with a big fat yes, and one of the more underrated pitchers in the 90's and of all time.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Kevin Brown, I know he's been brought up, but I think he was dismissed too quickly. I'm going with yes, at first glance he's underwhelming, Only once a 20 game winner. 211 -144. A career era of 3.29.

Here comes the ground breaker, KB has a WAR of 73.5. He had about a 4 year stretch where he was the elite among other pitchers, I think this qualifies him with a big fat yes, and one of the more underrated pitchers in the 90's and of all time.

Brown is a maybe for me, but he certainly should be one of those guys sitting at 20-40% of the vote. It's ludicrous that he only received 2.1%. More than any other pitcher of his era, Brown was sacrificed on the altar of narrative.

1. Jerk to media
2. Named on 2003 Mitchell Report
3. Most dominant stretch came in Miami and San Diego
4. Vilified for getting baseball's first $100M contract with LA (even though he was excellent for 3.5 of his 5 seasons with the Dodgers)
5. 2004 ALCS Game 7

[wwharton]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I wouldn't be shocked if Kevin Brown got in.